The real Biodegradable BB

[TaktikAirsoft]

Thanks

But I can not make them locally yet.
If some knows where I can find a mold and press maybe.

Originally Posted by TnT_13

To the original poster, I'd happily stock up on .20's for indoor and .28's for outdoor, if these BIO bb's were being manufactured locally, I'd push them on all my friends as well.

[surebet]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

I hate reading you Neanderthals go on about how useless bio BB's are. Normal BB's DO NOT DISAPPEAR OR GO AWAY. They slowly break down to the molecular level (after a long, long, long time), enter the soil/water and through the cycle of life, end up in your body, and stay there. Doing wonderful things to you. Everyone has this crap in their system, you can't avoid it, it's the world we live in. Most available 'BIO' BB's still use elements that are far from enviro friendly. Do your research maybe, read some articles, learn a little science. Are bio bb's going to save the world? No. But idiots who bash anything that is a step in the right direction are irritating, the type of people who like to hear the sound of their own voice. Or in this case, love seeing their cute little sig's after each of their posts.

And mesh goggles are for morons.

You'd be surprised just how much stuff I, a Neanderthal simpleton, actually reads on the subject.

You however, seem to have missed the point completly. Aggressive sales tactics, unfounded claims, marketing fabrications and general guilt-tripping is the issue most of us have with bio-BBs.

It's getting effin' annoying to have rabid fanboys constantly chirping about this and that over here.

If you must know, I do own a few bags of bio-BBs, Madbulls. Their distributors is the only one who isn't a complete douchebag about his products.

[TnT_13]

I mostly took issue to those talking about how regular plastic BB's only take a few more years to "break down" than Bio BB's. That is ill-informed and silly to think, let alone type for people to read and mis-interpret as fact. I get the whole it doesn't make a damn difference in the grand scheme of things. And I don't respect manufacture who misrepresent their product(s).

[pusangani]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

I mostly took issue to those talking about how regular plastic BB's only take a few more years to "break down" than Bio BB's. That is ill-informed and silly to think, let alone type for people to read and mis-interpret as fact. I get the whole it doesn't make a damn difference in the grand scheme of things. And I don't respect manufacture who misrepresent their product(s).

that's cool mang

[The Acer]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

I mostly took issue to those talking about how regular plastic BB's only take a few more years to "break down" than Bio BB's. That is ill-informed and silly to think, let alone type for people to read and mis-interpret as fact. I get the whole it doesn't make a damn difference in the grand scheme of things. And I don't respect manufacture who misrepresent their product(s).

Whats a couple extra years, most fields we play on are planned to be paintball/airsoft fields for the next many years, so does anyone really care that they need to biodegrade any time soon

Also Mesh goggles are great for thoses who tend to fog up, so I guess many people are "morons" for wanting to be able to see... i guess

[TnT_13]

mesh is great for allowing chunks of shattered BB's direct access to your irreplaceable eyeballs. Fan's are great for removing fog, give me 25$, I'll give you a custom silent fan you can fit on top of any goggle system's top vent.

And again....the components of plastic BB's, and most plastics produced in the world....NEVER. BREAK. DOWN. You may stop noticing them, they may disappear into tiny bits, but the half-life of some of these things is basically infinite. Plastics are not natural and do do naturally break down into inert substances. They exist forever. Check out all the cool stuff swirling around in the Pacific Ocean. I wish I could slap people through a computer screen.

[The Acer]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

mesh is great for allowing chunks of shattered BB's direct access to your irreplaceable eyeballs.

We wouldnt have this problem if people didnt use bio bbs, or cheap .12s

Also bio bbs have a tendency to break in guns/jam guns,

We dont have all the facts here, of how long does it take a bio bb to biodegrade and an regular bb to degrade, or what exactly is left over, no scientific data here, but... I do know airsoft bbs have been around for over 15 years (but significant use over the last 5 years), and no one has said to be any immediate damage to the enviroment

[TnT_13]

Originally Posted by The Acer

We wouldnt have this problem if people didnt use bio bbs, or cheap .12s

Also bio bbs have a tendency to break in guns/jam guns,

We dont have all the facts here, of how long does it take a bio bb to biodegrade and an regular bb to degrade, or what exactly is left over, no scientific data here, but... I do know airsoft bbs have been around for over 15 years (but significant use over the last 5 years), and no one has said to be any immediate damage to the enviroment

Ok, as if someone right off the bat didn't comment they had recently had a Bastard break apart during close range testing, and you wouldn't dare call a Bastard a "crappy .12 would you? Sorry to bust your bubble, but plastic isn't made of invincible materials, and while they have less tendency to break, it can and DOES still happen. I've also heard of FULL BB's getting through mesh googles, take a hot gun at close range, and you increase the chance of this occurring. And when I say plastic doesn't bio-degrade, that is science, I'm not talking out of my ass, do some reading/research and learn some FACTS. "No one has said its an immediate danger". Well neither was lead in your gasoline, or Asbestos in your walls, or fluorine in your toothpaste...

Crappy bio BB's do have a tendency to jam in guns. Guess what, so do crappy plastic BB's. This is why we have reviews and test products, and don't lump all things Bio into the 'crappy' pile. That's what you call jumping to conclusions. That is what silly people with a hindered ability to think logically do. There are some very good Bio BB's available, and as time goes on, they will be more accessible and made even better.

And on your last point, guess what. Every time you play outdoors and shoot hundreds of BB's around, your essentially littering. It's actually Illegal. Are you ever going to get a ticket, or care about it? A ticket, highly unlikely; and as far as caring, clearly not you, or the vast majority of airsofters. But that is what your doing, spewing garbage around and not bothering to clean it up. Times and attitudes are changing my friends, and while "no one" (I do) cares about it now, I ask; Why not be pro-active and show the airsoft community is ahead of the game as far as being enviromentally responsible? Why wait until it becomes another black mark on our sport?

[coach]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

And on your last point, guess what. Every time you play outdoors and shoot hundreds of BB's around, your essentially littering. It's actually Illegal. Are you ever going to get a ticket, or care about it? A ticket, highly unlikely; and as far as caring, clearly not you, or the vast majority of airsofters. But that is what your doing, spewing garbage around and not bothering to clean it up. Times and attitudes are changing my friends, and while "no one" (I do) cares about it now, I ask; Why not be pro-active and show the airsoft community is ahead of the game as far as being enviromentally responsible? Why wait until it becomes another black mark on our sport?

Its not littering when you play on a private field or paintball field and the field owner is allowing you to play.

[surebet]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

Ok, as if someone right off the bat didn't comment they had recently had a Bastard break apart during close range testing, and you wouldn't dare call a Bastard a "crappy .12 would you? Sorry to bust your bubble, but plastic isn't made of invincible materials, and while they have less tendency to break, it can and DOES still happen. I've also heard of FULL BB's getting through mesh googles, take a hot gun at close range, and you increase the chance of this occurring. And when I say plastic doesn't bio-degrade, that is science, I'm not talking out of my ass, do some reading/research and learn some FACTS. "No one has said its an immediate danger". Well neither was lead in your gasoline, or Asbestos in your walls, or fluorine in your toothpaste...

Crappy bio BB's do have a tendency to jam in guns. Guess what, so do crappy plastic BB's. This is why we have reviews and test products, and don't lump all things Bio into the 'crappy' pile. That's what you call jumping to conclusions. That is what silly people with a hindered ability to think logically do. There are some very good Bio BB's available, and as time goes on, they will be more accessible and made even better.

And on your last point, guess what. Every time you play outdoors and shoot hundreds of BB's around, your essentially littering. It's actually Illegal. Are you ever going to get a ticket, or care about it? A ticket, highly unlikely; and as far as caring, clearly not you, or the vast majority of airsofters. But that is what your doing, spewing garbage around and not bothering to clean it up. Times and attitudes are changing my friends, and while "no one" (I do) cares about it now, I ask; Why not be pro-active and show the airsoft community is ahead of the game as far as being enviromentally responsible? Why wait until it becomes another black mark on our sport?

I don't think anyone here has a fundemental issue against bio-BBs, but you have to understand that they have a bad reputation because of previous bad products, either performance wise or being of dubious enviromental quality.

Furthermore, companies like Bioval have tried to pull various shenanigans here and in other forums, basically claiming that their product was made of the stuff of legends, engineered by Einstein himself and being the end-all be-all solution to stuff like world hunger and AIDS.

... more or less...

A very real and relevant issue with the claims of Bioval and others is the science that backs them. In the case of Bioval, the Levente (Levante?) lab report is of sketchy value, since peer review is basically impossible, being shrouded in secrets and all. We aren't all just a bunch of rednecks, verifiable science is an important issue in cases like this.

Besides, some (me included) will brush off the enviromental issues of plastic BBs since the plastics used will remain more or less inert for their life, however long it may be. As I said, the impact of of other factors involved in the acquisition and use of the tools of our hobby are largely more noticeable.

Is it a bad thing to use plastic BBs? Perhaps, but then again, everything we do has a carbon footprint attached to it. From my point of view, the devil is not really in the details, but in the large, glaring issues like the car you drive, the food items you consume and other major every day decisions.

I either bike or bus my way to most places, I recycle where it makes sense, defend green issues at work and all that crap. Hell, I switched from CO2 to HPA for my paintball setup just to reduce my carbon product use.

Plastic BBs are one of the last things that might keep me up at night, not because I ''don't care'', but because I prefer to defend more relevant issues.

This being said, I have around 10k Madbull bio .25's that I hope to test out soon. If they perform well I might switch, but trying to guilt trip me into the whole bio thing will only piss me off.

As a little parting gift, two relevant Penn and Teller's Bullshit episodes!

http://www.surfthechannel.com/episode/2749/48394.html
http://www.surfthechannel.com/episode/2749/48371.html

[Con Murder]

I am so impressed that although we all shoot this stuff no one thought to just have a bio vs plastic game...

[TaktikAirsoft]

Actually I would suggest a BIO vs PVC shoot competition.

This is much better then a game the evaluate the accuracy.

[surebet]

Not exactly qantifiable science though...

[m102404]

Originally Posted by TnT_13

Ok, as if someone right off the bat didn't comment they had recently had a Bastard break apart during close range testing, and you wouldn't dare call a Bastard a "crappy .12 would you? Sorry to bust your bubble, but plastic isn't made of invincible materials, and while they have less tendency to break, it can and DOES still happen. I've also heard of FULL BB's getting through mesh googles, take a hot gun at close range, and you increase the chance of this occurring. And when I say plastic doesn't bio-degrade, that is science, I'm not talking out of my ass, do some reading/research and learn some FACTS. "No one has said its an immediate danger". Well neither was lead in your gasoline, or Asbestos in your walls, or fluorine in your toothpaste...

Crappy bio BB's do have a tendency to jam in guns. Guess what, so do crappy plastic BB's. This is why we have reviews and test products, and don't lump all things Bio into the 'crappy' pile. That's what you call jumping to conclusions. That is what silly people with a hindered ability to think logically do. There are some very good Bio BB's available, and as time goes on, they will be more accessible and made even better.

And on your last point, guess what. Every time you play outdoors and shoot hundreds of BB's around, your essentially littering. It's actually Illegal. Are you ever going to get a ticket, or care about it? A ticket, highly unlikely; and as far as caring, clearly not you, or the vast majority of airsofters. But that is what your doing, spewing garbage around and not bothering to clean it up. Times and attitudes are changing my friends, and while "no one" (I do) cares about it now, I ask; Why not be pro-active and show the airsoft community is ahead of the game as far as being enviromentally responsible? Why wait until it becomes another black mark on our sport?

Not to be a prick...but...

what make is your Hybrid car...your solar electical panels and solar hot water system?

How's your 100mile diet working out?

What do you use to power your AEG....A garbage recycling flux capacitor?

Your last AEG came in 100% recycled paper packaging right?

I can't believe that people are touting bio-fucking-bbs as the toe-hold way to make airsoft more eco friendly.

And to "clean up it's image"...give me a break...you're obviously talking about some other country right?

[TaktikAirsoft]

It's not meant to be. A lot things in life are about the feel and the results we perceive.