AI - Impact grenade
 

So I just saw this pop up on my Youtube subscribers page and am in love:

YouTube- Airsoft Innovations Tornado Impact Grenade

Totally hope to get one at the TTAC convention hopefully!

Hot potatoe airsoft games, here we come!

and I just wasted all my money on spoon kit grenades >.>

^ditto^

That is smart marketing!!

oh madmax, you're a clever bastard!

And what if these impact grenades still used spoon kits? :D

Now that is sweet!

That is freaking cool!

Once again, AI re-writes rules of airsoft CQB...

Belt fed launchers next?

when are they going to be available

I heard rumors
 

that they will be available at TAC10

but MM will have to confirm that

Any guess if they will be available for sale or just eye candy to drool over?

I suspect that the Mad one will have a pre sale price locked in with a minimum deposit, with the finished product being directly delivered to you once a large production run is completed....the same as he did with the Tornado grenades.

...and this would be one more reason as to why I don't do CQB!!

LOL
SHA DO

When do they arrive in Japan? Hmmm?

Do you think there will be an upgrade kit to bring existing AI Grenades to an impact Grenade?

Do I spy some kind of hint regarding the 40mm launchable impact grenade or... it's just me?

I think it's just you..

It's been discussed .. in general terms but it is fraught with issues beyond the technical

Oh snap. After seeing the Blackhole video, I had some hopes.

I won't give up hope if you don't!!!

I never give up!

I hope there is a upgrade kit as my original grenades are sitting in a drawer because the timers are way too irregular.

looks like resetting the pin would be a bit of a bother....other then that, room clearing will never be the same

YouTube- Airsoft Innovations Tornado Crash Impact Grenade - Redwolf Airsoft

Redwolf already has their hands on them, really hope to see these at TTAC 10 convention!

Wow.. that's a brilliant trigger mechanism!!!

"You can actually pull the pin out ahead of time. And now the grenade is armed but still safe to carry. I can put this in a vest or in my pocket, and so as long as I don't go around chest pumping people it won't go off.".

roofles!

someone needs to test to see if shooting an armed nade will make it go off! also, now you have to make sure any nades in your vest/on you aren't armed if you're about to breech a room and someone from inside tries to get out slams the door back on you. lol

Hey all. I've been burning the midnight oil trying to push things to launch with this grenade so I haven't been browsing ASC much. To answer some questions:

Is the Impact Grenade (IG) available as an upgrade to timer version?

Sorry, no. Initial proof of concept (POC) trials were done with modified timer grenades so it looked like an upgrade kit was possible, but further developments were hampered by having to make so many performance tradeoffs to get this grenade variant to work well. It was quite difficult to get the grenade to be sensitive but not prone to misfiring. Some early POCs were very sensitive, but they sometimes went off on pin pull. Making them less prone to pin pull misfires required making changes which sometimes resulted in in slow openings. In order to get the impact sensitivity high enough to trigger on a 1" drop on concrete, open reliably, and be tolerant to slightly bent pins I had to reduce the axial force exerted by the shuttle. Basically I had to change the diameter of the fire valve flange (the end where the fill valve goes) to reduce the net force applied to the trigger stack. Reducing the net force also made those parts more durable. Early POCs had very high axial forces which sometimes resulted in the bits in the trigger stack getting dinged despite them being made in hardened steel. The production bits are still made in hardened steel, but the reduced axial piston load doesn't exceed their bearing pressure limit like earlier builds did.

1" blasts on concrete is impressive, but it relates to approximately a 36" (3') drop on grass. Grass is much more cushioning than the sudden impact on concrete. I'm not sure if the grenade works in sand, but any reasonable toss on grass should work. Hard packed earth or concrete are fine as well as most firm walls.

Inconsistent timer grenade?

We've made a relatively recent revision to our timer grenade which was supposed to have been announced, but I never got around to making the web content because I'm up to my eyeballs in impact grenade setup. We've moved to a CNC machined shuttle assembly to replace the injection moulded shuttle we used to use. The machined shuttle has much smoother seal grooves so we don't have to glue in the U-cup seals on our shuttles. This allows the seals to be more conformal so it reduces the static friction in the tube so the newer shuttles have shown to be more consistent. Also the seals are replaceable because they're not glued on. When I can clear my desk a bit I hope to make the shuttles available separately as an aftermarket part so users can up-rev (up revision) their grenades to the current build.

Spoon kit compatibility: not compatible

The novel IG trigger mechanism relies on an axial pin (timer grenade is a radial pin) which is not amenable to a spoon kit application. The straight length of the pin (a functional requirement) is quite long making it difficult for the short arc on a spoon kit to reliably extract the pin fully without bending it. The spoon kit is not compatible with the IG build. There really isn't much need for a spoon kit on an IG grenade as there is no timer which inexorably ticks away.

It is NOT recommended that users "prime" their IGs by removing the pin and holding them in a gear pouch. While it may be not very likely that you'll run face into a wall, it is quite conceivable that you'll have a brain fart error and walk back into the safe zone with an ARMED and ENABLED IG. I note that many players are not diligent in the practice of disarming their grenades by removing their valve covers so I do worry that players may be similarly negligent with the IG. Do not bring armed grenades into the safe area. Do not prime your IGs by carrying them around in a gear pouch with the pin removed.

40mm launchable grenade

I continue to work on this project, but it is still a long way off. I am currently trying to deal with safety issues requiring the automatic arming of the projectile round as well as the need to automatically disarm the driver charge unless the round is in a launcher.

The safety requirements of a launchable grenade are multifarious. Included but not limited to:

-exploding projectile must be FUN: actually blasts bbs, flies reasonable far, combat deployable etc
-projectile must be lightweight
-projectile design must be inherently disarmed during loading procedure (usually done in the safe zone)
-driver charge design must be naturally disarmed until it is in the launch pipe

The first two issues seem to be dealt with. The most recent POC is pretty cool. It blasts 100bbs on impact and flies in a stable manner (non tumbling). The projectile and driver charge (driver charge propels the projectile) are fairly short (equivalent length as a 165bb moscart rnd) and they attach together so you only have to load one thing. You do have to eject the "expended" driver charge which is kind of cool too. The current projectile flight weight (total launch weight including bbs and propellant) is also quite light at a little over 50g which I'm pretty happy with considering that 20g of that is the expendable bb charge. I was surprised that I was able to pare down the non expendable weight of 30g to only 60% of flight weight.

The last two issues are quite a challenge. If I cannot come up with a reasonable solution for either, the project is a bust. It is unacceptable for me to release a product which has no safe direction (it explodes in all directions) and is easy to accidentally discharge in the safe zone. It looks like I can do a projectile which is armed by the launch pressure exerted by the driver charge, but I still have to work out a way to automatically disarm the launch charge because accidentally sitting the trigger plate of the launch charge on say a loose bb would launch the grenade and arm it which is a bad scenario. There is significant variation between grenade launchers (tube diameters etc) out there so it's tough to make a robust arming solution for the driver charge.

It is likely that it will take quite a long time for me to complete this project unfortunately. The small marketing director in me is pissed that I'm talking about it at all because it'll distract from the upcoming product launch so I'm going to cap the discussion on the launchable grenade. All I can reveal is a bit of an intimate peek (hey it's Valentines day!) on this new product in the works, but I can't dwell on it. I figure the launchable grenade is at least a year away for me to dig through the R&D process and work up the financing to start paying for tooling.

I know it's exciting, but it's not practical to open a lengthy design discussion on it online and I need to refocus on getting the impact grenade out to market. Just think: every timer or impact grenade I sell goes to paying for the R&D for the launchable grenade and it's incredibly expensive Canadian manufactured injection mould. I actually haven't drawn a wage in nearly six years now. I'd like to start contributing to my RRSPs someday because I'm starting to get old.

MadMax is the man; and we love what you've added to the sport, and continue to add to the sport.

Thanks! I strive to keep up with the namesake of my company. Making stuff in North America is expensive. We have to offer novel stuff if we can't compete on price.

interested:)

uhh..carl...you havent told us if we can get our hands on them at tac10 yet....suspense is evil!!

Wow, that is awesome. Even if it's not ready, keeping us informed is a great attention from you, thanks!
I hope that most of the cost of the launchable grenade will be in the "cartridge" and not in the launched part, just in case it gets lost. Obviously, that's a risk all buyers will have to acknowledge, but otherwise that might be something which would hold up people from buying it.

Did you look into grenade launcher manufacturers to seek investors? I can really see a launchable grenade draw more GL sales, so they could be interested. At least, that's my case as I don't currently see any interest for me (besides the badass factor) of using one.

Anyway... you probably already thought of all that!

I already had Tornado's on my wishlist... Now I don't know if I should buy 1 of each or keep just Tornado's. I hate that kind of arguing with myself! :P

for the safety of the firing mechanism on the launchable grenade, could you have 2 small fin type objects that when are pressed in, arm the grenade? 2 so that it is more difficult to accidentally hold down both as you set it down or something.
EDIT: you may have thought of this, but it is an idea to make a potentially awesome product safe to use.

Ohhhh these would be nice to have for Claybank... any hopes???

Bet you would make a killing selling them at CB...

I tough about something similar... if you have a lever on both sides, that need to be pressed-in to move a latch similar to door locks... two pin end to end, and when they are not pressed in, the valve cannot be pushed in by the striker...

Then if the launched part is armed by an actual launch, it makes the nade safe as long as it is not in the tube...

Sorry. I'm not getting into a design discussion about the launchable grenade. I find that in product design I learn about 25x more "know how NOT" than "know HOW". About every idea I try is more or less just as plausible as the way I end up going with except for the fact that trying things out in materials shows otherwise. Design discussion without physical trials is like chairsofting without even buying anything.

I'm pushing to release the Impact grenade late this month. I hope to have them out for demo as well as sale at TAC10! If all goes well, Brian should be have one or two as door prizes too.

gah...gonna be lots of broke happy people if you do!

Sorry if I sound noob, but I'm new to this.

If you can't make a conversion kit from Timer > Impact, could Impact > Timer work, or it's the same problem?

likely not going to have a conversion kit. the mechanisms are completely different.

That's right. If you read MadMax's post, both have very different internals so it will not be possible.

not to mention that the tops are opposing threads to each other

I read it, but I don't have one so I'm new to their mechanisms/internals

Sorry, the timer and IG mechanisms are not cross compatible. Too much difference in the way they work. I had to make changes to the aluminum valve body tube (tubular part housed in the shells) which is not removable from the grenade shells.

Basically I had to reduce the difference in area between the large and small diameters on the shuttle to reduce the net axial force that the shuttle exerts on the trigger bits. I also had to shorten the sealing length on the small dia end of the tube to advance the opening of the shuttle when the IG stack collapses.

Fuck ..... I sold my AI grenades because the timer thing was more hassle than I considered "worth" it, but this is freaking awsome, I'll definately have to get some of these!

I'd imagine that pin may pose a problem with some grenade pouches.

I saw redwolf has Pre-Order now so I just wonder if we're Canadian can get them before HK or the rest of the world get their hand on since it made in Canada. :D

when
How
Where
How Much
...

+1 and Me want!!! :)

I had the pleasure of winning one of these bad boys at TAC 10. And still haven't had a chance to try it out yet. But definitely a very nice piece of hardware.

I payed $20 for the pre-order at TAC 10, any new news when they are going to be released? Would be much appreciated... ;)

Hey Carl, when do we get the price!! :)

when can I get my hands on one

It's on his website:

AI Tornado Impact Grenade
Status: Shipping Soon
Awesome: Indubitably!!!
Price: $99.95 Width: 2.125"
Loaded Weight: 260g
Discharge Velocity: Between 65fps-140fps (first to last shot)

lol, thanks Kip! I rarely get much time surfing at home and I've got a backdown link to only this website at work (dont ask). I cant even view images unless they are attached to the post directly on ASC.

hmm... I might be able two, maybe three :)

The impact grenade revolutionizes grenades as much as the AI grenade revolutionized airsoft grenades.

it is in fact the Holy grail of Frag Grenade simulators..

I can see me getting many more when they come out

I have an evaluation sample now.. and it is simply awesome.

When will they be available for sale ?

The only two things I don't like about them is:
- the squeeze&pull ring thing (because I'm clumsy and even clumsier with gloves)
- that you can't carom them off a wall around a bend/corner (it'd be awesome if upon impact they cooked a very short delay)

Otherwise being able to pull the pin and not have it go off is great. I shook it as hard as I could, waved it around...nothing. Tapped it on a table and BOOM.

Resetting is easy. What I've found with the normal grenades is that you get 3-4 of them, set them all up and use them...then that's it for the night if it's hurry/hurry between sets, or if you catch a long break you'll get one or two reset to go again. I suspect these will be used the same way.

I want the launchable 40MM version, I giggle like a kid at toys R'us everytime I think of that.

I want those bouncing betties I seen a while back! That was super F%cking sweet and no word about it since:(

Once production issues are resolved.. and a stock is built up.

Carl is fanatical making sure the product is good before it goes out the door, he does not have his buyers do his testing for him.

Haha, yea. Whatever happened to AI's 40mm launch able impact grenade?

.

Re: AI - Impact grenade
 

Damn man, you giggle like a kid everytime you pop a cherry!

give the man time...he's working on launching the impact nade first then will get back to it. he'll let us know if/when they're done. there are those of us that are waiting to load 6 at a time :D

Here's a question for you MadMax, master of the awesome Grenades ;)

Say I pull the pin on the sucker, and the grenade gets a 2-3+ round burst RIGHT into the grenade.
Would the impact from the BB's set the grenade off?

Sure that's pretty damn random and luck is not on your side, but I figure it's bound to happen sometime.

Thoughts/opinion people? Either way it doesn't matter, just throwing it out there.

Not to answer for MadMax...

But at TAC10 he and I tried to detonate the grenade with .25's @ 300fps from 2 feet.

We couldn't set it off.

Obviously, the more kinetic energy you throw at the grenade, the more likely you will set it off.

So maybe .30g @ 380fps from 2 feet will set it off.

We simply didn't test it.

hmmm...interesting....so what happens if saaaayyy...someone "accidentally" blasts one with a madbull king or cherry nade charged to 800ish psi at near point blank....say....10-20'? obviously the impact nade would be the last thing on that person's mind but i'm curious

I say this calls for an experiment! How to set off an impact grenade from a distance using your weapon :)
but you have to film it!!!

I'll film it but you have to carry the impact nade in your rig!

schyaright...I volunteer hades to hold it :)

We like you better, I'll even load it light just 600psi instead of the usual 800psi

pffft....screw that noise....i'll bake that tank in the mid summer sun to charge for him to be the test subject.....muahahahhaha:cool:

Re: AI - Impact grenade
 

"So sorry Z, I read my tank gauge upside down. Thought it showed 600psi but was 900psi.".

"Hey Z, can you hold that impact nade a little higher? I mean you can hold it in front of your nads if you want but would you rather one or both going off at the same time?".

Of course Betsy or Rhonda will need to be used in case the first shot misses.?

phukers... hehe

Damn man, the hatred lol.

no man, it ain't hatred at all. :D

Well since it isn't hatred. I'm making a pvc bazooka for another project, it's just for show at a con, but when it's done i can fit a slightly smaller diameter tube inside and try to convert that into a launcher for the experiment :) a couple of co2 canisters, a few valves and releases, just needs a trigger... lol

now you need to find a way to combine the "Timer Tornado" and the "Impact Tornado"... with spoon kit of course :P

See, this'll never catch on as well as the timed grenades for one simple reason: No corner-bouncing.

(Yeah, that's just my way of saying "Darn, I just bought two Tornados..." Ha ha!)

what? like tape it into some super grenade? that'd be pretty awesome, too bad it wouldn't spin.

....then tape impact triggered booster rockets to it!

nah.... my idea was to keep the Impact Tornado design, but add some kind of internal "button" that would "pop" after a certain preset delay once the pin is removed, pushing the "trigger assembly column pieces", ...therefore triggering the tornado!!!

So the grenade can be a Impact and Timer Tornado!!!

I wonder what the original designer would think about this....

Perhaps a double impact? That way it can bounce around the corner then go off? I think it is interesting as it is really and nice to see the designer is still coming up with stuff. As a fellow designer I hope the best for him and for more goodies. : D

Oh lord, it's finally out. I thought that after our first very delayed grenade launch, we'd have gotten this one right. We're finally in production!

http://airsoft-innovations.com/Impact.html

A single impact grenade is tough enough. A timer-impact is out of my league. There's no way I'd be able to do that in an affordable manner. Jessica Alba? Bring me Jessica and I'll make you a timer impact grenade.

Discount for CANADIAN ASC members? :D

I'll probably get one either way, but its always nice to have that "preferred customer" status

Congrats Max! Can't wait to see one in person!

Will the Timed version become cheaper with the release of the Impact? :P

haha there is always a WAy to do it :P....

PS: sry I'm keeping Jessica Alba for myself... :P

Agreed. Where can I buy one in Canada now that they're out?

http://airsoft-innovations.com/Impact.html

if you click the button that says Buy now at the AI store .....


http://gungas.com/product_info.php?c...roducts_id=373

Did we ever get anywhere with that 'bouncing betty' idea Max?
I am really interested in the impact grenade as we play in alot of bushes and fields, its become really difficult to actually frag the enemy in such conditions. For low brush the timed Tornado is great with an air burst, but in thicker and higher brush we often get the Tornado near the enemy but it cannot get 360 coverage when detonating on the ground. Enter the impact Tornado! Haha! Now if a 'betty was added in there we could have some real interesting situations.

Saw that coach, but when I saw the prices in USD I assumed it was an American site and that it would get confiscated by the CBSA. If gungas.com is in country I'll happily place my order.

there should be a launcher for these things. :)

to the best of my knowledge, AI and gungas are one in the same. gungas is in country.

bout bloody time! :D good job Carl!!

Can we get the grenades in multicam?
(I'm kidding!!!!)

Good to know, I thought GunGas was their distributor in the US and ASC Mart in Canada.

Fantastic Carl, any chance of doing that US price match thing again?

Not at all related to the Impact Grenade...but I liked them...

YouTube- Airsoft Innovations Tornado grenade video contest


YouTube- Tornado Grenade Video Contest -Animation by Paweł Dobrowolski

I think everyone agrees with me when I say I hope so

Sorry, I've backburnered the bounding mine attachment so I could get this thing to market. I also have to make a bunch of dough to make the injection mould for the bounding mine attachment. I'm always tinkering away on something when manufacturing cleans up though. I'm looking forward to working on something new hopefully in a couple weeks.

I think the USD is pretty much par now. Prices on GunGas will be same as in CAD.

A MK19 launcher and grenades would be awesome, but what I'd really like to do is an EX-41. That thing is so viscerally awesome. Pump action 40mm grenade launcher arh arh arh...

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl28-e.htm

omfg... thats awsome!!!! :P

Realistically a mk-19 launcher is not all that complicated for airsoft and the only significantly noticeable external difference is you need a larger shell expulsion port on the under side and you might benefit by attaching a shell connection sack.

I have been wanting to make one of these for years now. Imagine busting open a door and justing shotgunning a room with that thing.