The real Biodegradable BB
 

Hello guys

Now than I AM a retailer... I can post this question for all of you.

In the short future I will be importing biodegradable bbs. The problem that I need you help with is I don't know how many of you use different weight values?

Who uses 0.2 vs 0.25 and how many players are there?

Thanks for your help.

Thanks for adding .12s :)

What brand?

pricing? seriously, it'll play a big part in me switching.

what about .36?

The pricing is not set.

We are still negotiating.

It would be my brand.

Please feel free to ask any questions.

I am going to be honest here, most players dont like biodegradable bbs, because they break too easily, so if a player is wearing mesh goggles, then they might get a small piece in the face/eyes. So if you were going to retail them, then sell "normal" / non-bio bbs.

I use biobbs simply I don't want to clean up. I use Madbull .25g (I just purchase 5X bag of 4000)

orly? unless you are manufacturing them with your specific ingredients, what brand are you relabeling?

Well they are made from PLA.

And I asked for them to be harder more compact.

doesn't answer the question.

and harder isn't better

Well from a business stand point, I'm not going to tell you the name of my supplier.

I just ask him to change a few things for me, that's all.

My girlfriend disagrees

Yea, Mine too. It's so hard to find a bed just right for us.

hmm PLA sounds like G&G to me, I'd stick to my madbull w/ the newer type of decomp

NO thanks... Bio BBS Screw up guns and as stated before can go through mesh masks...

the life of a real BB is only about 5 more years then a Bio BB so who really cares at that point..

sorry you could give them away and I would not take em...

They are not from G&G.

I agree that low end bios are REALLY BAD. But the highend bios seem to be just as good a PVC bbs.

But that's OK if you are not interested.

Thanks for taking the time to coment.

I would agree that Bio BB's have a little way to go.

But there are some very very good ones out there now.
Been shooting Bioval wow. much better then the mid range plastic I've used.

the thing that we need to consider is that at some point plastic should be band. It's really bad for the enviorment and as Bio's are developed the companies making them will stat to push how bad it is to shoot plastic.

As Business poeple and players we need to be ready. It's coming fast.

I was just thinking the same thing when I decided to go bio and not PVC.

well all i can say is,when i can shoot someone at 10 feet away and it doesn't shatter.mybe ill use them.but BB bastard's for me.hehehe
0.25

Anyone have a preference for colour BTW?

Actually, Saturday I had some BB Bastard shatter when doing some test shooting at a pair of ballistic glasses (wanted to know if the glasses were safe to wear) range was 2metres the BBs split right in half.

Every brand can and will shatter under the right circumstances. Bio BB's just seems to be easier.

also, some of the bio bb's out there tend to shatter into a fine dust.

bastards splitting in half is acceptable.

this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you also sell bio bb's too right?

No one cares for the environment while playing airsoft, it's a non-issue

And the fact that the plastic BBs made from polystyrene will fade away from the enviroment not THAT much longer after these supposed sham of "biodegradable" bbs? Bio-bbs seem to be the new fish oil claiming to save the human race from extinction.

PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASS

Let's just all consider the carbon footprint left after any BB is imported from Asia, in multi-layer packaging, then shipped all over Canada.

Repeat for every part you order.

Add the gas you spend to get to games.

Suddently, bio-BBs aren't the real enviromental issue...

If you want to sell them, fine, just don't tout them as the end-all be-all issue that needs to guilt trip everyone.

The hype behind the Bioval products is just unbearable, you can be sure I'll never buy any of that product even if I need to buy bio-BBs.

I like to call that the David Suzuki syndrome. The false sense of self-righteousness by seeming to care about the environment or being duped into thinking you are when the behind the scenes of it all pretty much counter-acts that.

To the original poster, I'd happily stock up on .20's for indoor and .28's for outdoor, if these BIO bb's were being manufactured locally, I'd push them on all my friends as well.

the issue is not whether bio-bb's actually break down smarty pants, it's the shady way that the bio-bb retailers/manufacturers go about marketing their product by suggesting that using regular bb's somehow makes you a bad person, and mesh goggles are fuckin GREAT, you should try a pair :)

Thanks

But I can not make them locally yet.
If some knows where I can find a mold and press maybe.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7466/chillpill2.jpg

You'd be surprised just how much stuff I, a Neanderthal simpleton, actually reads on the subject.

You however, seem to have missed the point completly. Aggressive sales tactics, unfounded claims, marketing fabrications and general guilt-tripping is the issue most of us have with bio-BBs.

It's getting effin' annoying to have rabid fanboys constantly chirping about this and that over here.

If you must know, I do own a few bags of bio-BBs, Madbulls. Their distributors is the only one who isn't a complete douchebag about his products.

I mostly took issue to those talking about how regular plastic BB's only take a few more years to "break down" than Bio BB's. That is ill-informed and silly to think, let alone type for people to read and mis-interpret as fact. I get the whole it doesn't make a damn difference in the grand scheme of things. And I don't respect manufacture who misrepresent their product(s).

that's cool mang :)

Whats a couple extra years, most fields we play on are planned to be paintball/airsoft fields for the next many years, so does anyone really care that they need to biodegrade any time soon

Also Mesh goggles are great for thoses who tend to fog up, so I guess many people are "morons" for wanting to be able to see... i guess

mesh is great for allowing chunks of shattered BB's direct access to your irreplaceable eyeballs. Fan's are great for removing fog, give me 25$, I'll give you a custom silent fan you can fit on top of any goggle system's top vent.

And again....the components of plastic BB's, and most plastics produced in the world....NEVER. BREAK. DOWN. You may stop noticing them, they may disappear into tiny bits, but the half-life of some of these things is basically infinite. Plastics are not natural and do do naturally break down into inert substances. They exist forever. Check out all the cool stuff swirling around in the Pacific Ocean. I wish I could slap people through a computer screen.

We wouldnt have this problem if people didnt use bio bbs, or cheap .12s

Also bio bbs have a tendency to break in guns/jam guns,

We dont have all the facts here, of how long does it take a bio bb to biodegrade and an regular bb to degrade, or what exactly is left over, no scientific data here, but... I do know airsoft bbs have been around for over 15 years (but significant use over the last 5 years), and no one has said to be any immediate damage to the enviroment

Ok, as if someone right off the bat didn't comment they had recently had a Bastard break apart during close range testing, and you wouldn't dare call a Bastard a "crappy .12 would you? Sorry to bust your bubble, but plastic isn't made of invincible materials, and while they have less tendency to break, it can and DOES still happen. I've also heard of FULL BB's getting through mesh googles, take a hot gun at close range, and you increase the chance of this occurring. And when I say plastic doesn't bio-degrade, that is science, I'm not talking out of my ass, do some reading/research and learn some FACTS. "No one has said its an immediate danger". Well neither was lead in your gasoline, or Asbestos in your walls, or fluorine in your toothpaste...

Crappy bio BB's do have a tendency to jam in guns. Guess what, so do crappy plastic BB's. This is why we have reviews and test products, and don't lump all things Bio into the 'crappy' pile. That's what you call jumping to conclusions. That is what silly people with a hindered ability to think logically do. There are some very good Bio BB's available, and as time goes on, they will be more accessible and made even better.

And on your last point, guess what. Every time you play outdoors and shoot hundreds of BB's around, your essentially littering. It's actually Illegal. Are you ever going to get a ticket, or care about it? A ticket, highly unlikely; and as far as caring, clearly not you, or the vast majority of airsofters. But that is what your doing, spewing garbage around and not bothering to clean it up. Times and attitudes are changing my friends, and while "no one" (I do) cares about it now, I ask; Why not be pro-active and show the airsoft community is ahead of the game as far as being enviromentally responsible? Why wait until it becomes another black mark on our sport?

Its not littering when you play on a private field or paintball field and the field owner is allowing you to play.

I don't think anyone here has a fundemental issue against bio-BBs, but you have to understand that they have a bad reputation because of previous bad products, either performance wise or being of dubious enviromental quality.

Furthermore, companies like Bioval have tried to pull various shenanigans here and in other forums, basically claiming that their product was made of the stuff of legends, engineered by Einstein himself and being the end-all be-all solution to stuff like world hunger and AIDS.

... more or less...

A very real and relevant issue with the claims of Bioval and others is the science that backs them. In the case of Bioval, the Levente (Levante?) lab report is of sketchy value, since peer review is basically impossible, being shrouded in secrets and all. We aren't all just a bunch of rednecks, verifiable science is an important issue in cases like this.

Besides, some (me included) will brush off the enviromental issues of plastic BBs since the plastics used will remain more or less inert for their life, however long it may be. As I said, the impact of of other factors involved in the acquisition and use of the tools of our hobby are largely more noticeable.

Is it a bad thing to use plastic BBs? Perhaps, but then again, everything we do has a carbon footprint attached to it. From my point of view, the devil is not really in the details, but in the large, glaring issues like the car you drive, the food items you consume and other major every day decisions.

I either bike or bus my way to most places, I recycle where it makes sense, defend green issues at work and all that crap. Hell, I switched from CO2 to HPA for my paintball setup just to reduce my carbon product use.

Plastic BBs are one of the last things that might keep me up at night, not because I ''don't care'', but because I prefer to defend more relevant issues.

This being said, I have around 10k Madbull bio .25's that I hope to test out soon. If they perform well I might switch, but trying to guilt trip me into the whole bio thing will only piss me off.

As a little parting gift, two relevant Penn and Teller's Bullshit episodes!

http://www.surfthechannel.com/episode/2749/48394.html
http://www.surfthechannel.com/episode/2749/48371.html

I am so impressed that although we all shoot this stuff no one thought to just have a bio vs plastic game... :)

Actually I would suggest a BIO vs PVC shoot competition.

This is much better then a game the evaluate the accuracy.

Not exactly qantifiable science though...

Not to be a prick...but...

what make is your Hybrid car...your solar electical panels and solar hot water system?

How's your 100mile diet working out?

What do you use to power your AEG....A garbage recycling flux capacitor?

Your last AEG came in 100% recycled paper packaging right?

I can't believe that people are touting bio-fucking-bbs as the toe-hold way to make airsoft more eco friendly.

And to "clean up it's image"...give me a break...you're obviously talking about some other country right?

It's not meant to be. A lot things in life are about the feel and the results we perceive.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...onclapping.gif

Exactly why I have an issue with recycling. Feel-good bandaid solutions like bio-BBs do next to nothing in the end.

Don't be lulled into accepting any fad in the name of being green, in some cases you actually do more harm than good as with most domesting recycling programs.