This community's financial weight
 

The whole talk around Will's situation has Harbinger of Darkness and me thinking. How much "donation" power do we have as a community (all of Canadian airsoft as a whole)?

If it ever came down to it how much would you (as an individual) really be willing to contribute to save our sport? Would you contribute anything? And I don't mean "I'd sell my gun to donate" kinda deal, I mean directly out of your current finances.

Before you all start with the "don't rock the boat" or "things are fine the sky isn't falling OMG n00b" comments, those aren't the reason for this post. I'm simply curious as to what the community would be willing to contribute to save airsoft should the need arise, because there's been some big talks in the past about throwing our weight around.

So how much do we weigh, in dollars and cents?

I would so
 

Totally like give you $ if I had any Dood

there ... in first..

had to be said.. as that will be most of the responses anyway.

Personally ... I'd pony up a few hundred if the cause warrented it

If we ALL put in a few dollars it could possibly be used to fight this whole "hate" for airsoft.. And I bet there has to be a lawyer among us willing to do something to help if needed.

Why should the government decide to ban airsoft importation and sale without even asking canadians anyway? I thought the government was in place to serve the country, not the other way around?

As with anything else, it really depends on what I'm paying for.

What's the promise? What's the likelihood it will achieve its intended goal? What are the guarantees?

If I have no faith in anything coming out of it, my likely contribution will be zero-dollars-and-something-cents; I don't pour money into pipe dreams. If OTOH it was a solid shot at something tangible and useful, possibly quite a bit.

It DOES serve the country; the soccer moms outnumber us 10-to-1.

So numerate your best and worst expectations with a dollar amount?

I don't see how my money could help the sport. Even hiring a lawyer would not help us get airsoft in a legal light.

+1 to Drake and Brian. If I believed that there was a solid plan of action and that the money would actually make a difference, then several hundred dollars easily.

Given the number of charitable donations that members here so easily make, you'll probably find that most people feel the same way - so long as people feel that their contributions will actually make a difference, there will be donations.

What he said...

:rolleyes:

P.S. What is it for anyways? Keep the server/domaine up? Because that is about 200$ a year... Hummm.

true, we'd need to hire a Powerful Politician and those don't come cheap

agreed. I honestly don't see how it can help. what exactly would this money be put towards?

Saint, can you expand a little on your thoughts and direction here?

Support you local gun dealer.

Several hundred a year.

For any organized movement to succeed, what is required is not just to retain good legal counsel to help navigate the murky waters of the various applicable Acts and Regulations, but it is equally important to retain a saavy political lobbyist to speak in one voice for us all. One who is able to bend the ear of legislators whether by charm and tact, or to influence their actions via threat of votes come election time...the GREAT FEAR of all politicians in government. It will not be a quick process and certainly it won't have any guarantees of success given the recent track records of other politically contentious lobby groups and the irritating screeches of a massively mis-informed ban-everything public. However, I would hope though that if we were to embark down this road with conviction in our hearts and with the strength of our wallets, then perhaps it might be possible to forge a way out of this grim mockery of justice wherein violent pedophiles and murderous gang bangers routinely receive suspended sentences while a toy salesman could potentially wind-up in Milhaven or Maplehurst for 4+ years... :(

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the UK have a similar problem awhile ago but the legislators and airsoft community worked together for what is now an agreeable solution for all? Sooner or later I believe we will be faced with the same difficult choices the UK airsoft community faced, and we will have to begin dialogue with the regulators in order to preserve our community status quo. Or at our own peril, we could choose say nothing at all and soon the only choice will be clear plastic toys, unless of course the Liberals or NDP form a national government in which case there will be no toys for any of us. :mad:

That being said and providing the action plan is sound, I'd be happy to donate.


'Fly

EDIT: This may be old news for some...or not, but this link to a summary of a constitutional challenge of various sections of the Firearms Act (hopefully) to be heard by the Supreme Court (http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/0080.html) and the other related information presented on that website should serve as a serious wake-up call for all of us. It truly reveals the seemingly limitless extent to which capricious crown prosecutors will pursue even administrative firearms-related offences, and the extent our enshrined rights are being illegally legislated into oblivion. Don't for a minute think airsoft owners would be immune from persecution...err, prosecution either if they chose to come after you! To wit and in another of a long litanny of efforts to "rub salt into the wounds" in this case, the Ontario Crown is actually seeking forfeiture of the family home under the so called, "...Proceeds of Crime..." provisions of the Act. Read on folks, read the entire news archives and other links, and become truly disgusted with the manner our Government protects us by persecuting any citizen who visibly objects to their happy, pacified, gun-less-except-for-true-criminals society. S'cuse me while I go and vomit...

$100.


I don't have much, but I'd donate $100 easily if it seemed like a solid plan.

as drake was saying, if there was a gurantee my money would make a difference and end the strife, i would definatly pony up a few hundred, up $500.

If I could, I would... but I'm on OSAP as it is... =)

I would say take it more as an inner reflection of one's value on legalizing airsoft.

To put an actual figure on it, put it this way:

If the government actually came out and said something like, "Okay, we'll allow import and possession, and everything will be dandy, BUT you need to have a license and pay an annual registration fee." And say that turned out to be $200/yr for the license (we're a small group so the administrative overhead for the license would be higher) and say $25/gun/yr... that's well over $500/yr in my case, but I'd be willing to pay it, because it's guaranteed I'd be in the clear and on the up and up all around.

If, OTOH, some politician (deputy) who was sympathetic to airsoft and wanted to raise money for his campaign, and he'd TRY to bring the issue up with his party, blah blah blah [LOL, electoral promise much?] I'd maybe throw $10 his way if I believed his party had a good chance of forming a majority AND that the party in question had a generally pro-gun ownership outlook (i.e., not Bloc, not Liberal and not NDP)

well i would give everything i have... which right now is about 8,000 of debt. yay for university and getting engaged!

I'd throw in as much as I could afford...it's not much, but a couple hundred at least.

And is this a good time for me to start looking into politics/us starting to convince noobs that their best bet for change is to get into the political arena? :p

But that would never work...this is a sport based on honesty and integrity...terms mutually exclusive with Politics :D

Worst case, only $100. If it came down to it I could put up to $500 maybe. It would have to be a damn good cause.

100 $ for me as well if this plan go well and I can stay here a few more year.

500 $ donate if I can stay here but if not, there is no reason for me to donate even 1 cent.

I'd easily put $100 up. Maybe more, like others have said, it depends on how likely I think it will succeed. If you want to start contacting lawyers and political lobbyists and try to get a plan together go ahead. If you post a comprihensive plan with some concrete numbers, you'd probably get a much more positive response.

Kuro_Neko

Depends on what it's used for and what the tactic we're using and what we're trying to achieve.

Definitely a couple bucks up to maybe $50 (Sorry I'm a poor university student) :( .

I'd quite willingly pay that fee

If there was a reasonable plan of action, I would definately donate to the sport. Im sure we all can put out something as long as there's a "HAPPY ENDING" ;D

I'd be willing to throw in a hundred or two as long as it has a chance of success.

It'd be the most expensive spring roll ever.

Expensive? You'd better believe it!! Just look at what this guy's going through to fight C-68 (Firearms Act). Upwards of 300,000 "spring rolls" so far... http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/0152.html

Background Info:
http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/index.html


'Fly

I agree. It's cheaper and easier for me to buy restricted guns legally. So...uh...I do that instead.

I will commit whatever time, energy or money I can spare.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't mind an initial fee to register, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay to own something I, you know, already own.

I pay for my care every year.

And I don't enjoy it nearly as much as my airsoft guns.

Besides there is no fee for PAL renewal, and you need that to continue to own the guns you already own. I don't see much chance of a fee.

License
 

I'd put a couple hundred in per year in order to legitimize the sport (eg, for a license). In fact I think there should be a bit of a barrier to entry, and to buy a gun, otherwise every joe-shmoe that wants to shootem'up in the backyard (or worse) will pick one up. It's ok right now while airsoft is basically underground, but if it were totally legal and got popular with the masses it might get messy.

Not to fire up the old debate again, but the licensing and registration would pretty much take care of that. The average punk kid who wants a cheap springer to look more thugalicious in the schoolyard isn't going to be getting a license or paying fees.

With registration, it would be difficult for anyone to pass stuff on to him under the table; at least you have some minor amount of trackable accountability.

As for popularity with the masses, as long as its properly controlled I don't see a problem to it; limiting its popularization for fear of what a few idiots might do, in that specific context, would be akin to wanting to ban all [real steel] handguns because someone might use one to commit a robbery.

The problem is that's exactly what the soccer moms want to do to real steel. Right now the majority of the soccer moms have never heard of airsoft, and they can't protest what they don't know about. But once it gets in the media, and that's what would have to happen if we wanted to legalize it, they'd all get up in arms about it and probably would get airsoft banned altogether (since airsoft doesn't have the support that real steel does).

edit: Not that I'm against it persay, we just have to have a solid plan. We go off half-cocked and the soccer moms will bury us.

Kuro_Neko

Well I wasn't talking about taking it to the media, dunno where that came from. Just taking airsoft to the media for the sake of bringing exposure to ourselves amounts to painting a target on our backs; I've never been for that sort of thing, or "educating the public."

I was referring only to Chester's comment about what happens if airsoft becomes available to the masses, with regards to Licensing, and within that context only (which presumes that politically and legally, airsoft has been "accepted" and legalized the same as paintball for example)

I'm still underage and will be a student within the time I turn 18, but as others said I'd be willing to find some money to put it for the cause if, as others said, there as a reasonable plan of action with at least *a possibility* of success.

Else I'm gonna live in France, lol.

Money helps get the ball rolling.

But how will you stop people like David Miller from closing down accident-free gun ranges? People like that see guns = bad = no votes = no power

Money can talk but winning them votes is their currency. Votes and vast public support = power = they can do what they want.

Thats how lobbyist do it, they know that showing how well their product would benefit the economy does not hold as much weight as showing the government how much votes or public support they will get if they support the company.

So how will the government win public support from supporting us?

We've gone over the political aspects many times and it's not what I'm asking. So let's try to keep the political commentary to a minimum? ;)

What The Saint is asking is, if shit went down and we were ALL to contribute money, what would be the total sum or power, as a whole. This is a non-political query.....y'all.

More...
 

Thing is, I live in soccer mom land myself (and my daughter plays soccer so I guess I'm married to one too) so I know it's a perception thing. That's why, in our house, I bought a cheap Crappy Tire safe to keep the heat away from the neighborhood kids. Out of sight, out of mind.

When I mentioned the media, it's because the gun issue already is in the media almost everyday. In Toronto (with other cities to follow later I'm sure), the mayor has been pushing to close firing ranges, even safe ones that have never had a problem, which is basically all of them. Right now Airsoft is like gays in the US military, "don't ask don't tell". But Airsoft guns look like real steel, so they could easily get swept into any type of strict legislation. Really it's a combo of a PR campaign ("it's just a fun/safe game!") and government lobbying that would be needed. Which I think would be crazy expensive. So hopefully the gun lobby will be strong enough to keep the strongest legislation at bay. And maybe all the people cut off from the firing ranges will end up at CAPS ;)

$
 

Your original question is how much money do we have. I think the answer is 'it depends' ... on what the money is for. The problem, and therefore the solution, is a political one, so that will always come up.

I think you're mixing a reluctance to contribute based on cynicism about the process with what I'm asking, which is how much one'd be willing to contribute if they believed money could facilitate the necessary change?

0... im 28 years old 1 MABY 2 seasons left for me and i have a kid.... its hard enough to buy guns and bbs let alone THROW a few hundred bucks out the window.... seriousley theres some people in this thread that sound like they have WAY more money than brains....

and for the reitaliers..... start putting some money away that you make from us to pay for your own leagle woes...

some people might think im being rude or a dick but its the truth

I applaud your efforts, but however I really like the quality of players we have in Canada. If we legalize airsoft, and made it cheap, I fear we would lose that. Just anyone (criminals, somehow minors will get their hands on them) would go into airsoft. While the people who pay an extra $100 per gun, have a lot more commitment. Just in my opinion

Also about registering Airsoft, I don't think that would happen, since there aren't serial numbers on them, if we were to put make and model, that also woulnt work as people mod their guns soo many times. It would just have to be a license for an individal to own airsoft. If thats the case then we couldnt have people just try out airsoft because themself wouldnt have the license.

Id be willing to contribute as much as i could, probably around 500$

Totally agree. That's what I was saying earlier about a barrier to entry being a good thing. Make it cheap and easy to get to first base (intro course), but harder / time consuming and more expensive to get to second base. A license fee could be a bit expensive the first year, then cheaper to renew. I'm a dragon boat captain and coach and you can see a big difference in the attitudes between committed people (who pay $300/yr and show up for 7 am Saturday morning workouts), and those playing around (who don't bother to show up 1/2 the time). The point isn't to squeeze people for money, it's to keep the participant quality high.

Ugh, why do people insist turning a donation question into a discussion on why they love airsoft being illegal? No amount of entry barrier is worth being illegal. If you've got a problem with the crowd, improve the crowd or find a new crowd. Leaving an activity illegal because you think it'll improve the crowd makes no sense.

I'm getting this thread locked, it's served its purpose.

I think it's because your question is so questionable...how much would I "donate" to an unnamed solution? Somewhere between $5 and $5000. Seems like most people here just took your question seriously.

Too seriously.

All my moneys is belong to Conservatives....