Border Services probe nets 800 illegal replica guns, 78 criminal charges
 

Well...some maybe remember Peter Kang and his airsoft experiences with the law. Well...here's another!

Border Services probe nets 800 illegal replica guns, 78 criminal charges

Steve Mertl, THE CANADIAN PRESS
VANCOUVER - Canada Border Services Agency has charged four B.C. men for reselling replica handguns meant to be used for TV and film productions.

The agency wrapped up a two-year investigation that resulted in the seizure of 800 replica guns in all and 78 criminal charges.

"What we were looking into was the importation and sale of these replica firearms, mainly in the Lower Mainland," agency spokeswoman Shakila Manzoor said Thursday.

Charges range from smuggling and making false statements to trafficking and unlawfully importing the replica firearms.

The two charged most recently were George Tickell and Matthew John Walsh, both of Mission, B.C., who are scheduled to appear in Richmond, B.C., provincial court Aug. 21.

It's alleged Tickell had a business firearms licence to import replica guns for the entertainment industry but instead sold them to Walsh, who marketed them through two hobby stores he owned in Mission.

Two other Vancouver-area men were charged previously in the two-year probe, said Manzoor.

Peter Kang and his company Real Ordnance Inc. each face 21 charges while Willie Wong has pleaded guilty to seven charges.

Manzoor said the guns were sold to customers at the hobby store, as well as other retailers and Internet website customers, retailing for anywhere from $40 to $1,600.

The investigation into who bought the guns is continuing, she said.

Police investigators have said in the past they sometimes seize replica handguns from street thugs who want to bolster their reputations but can't obtain a real gun.

The replicas, impressively accurate fakes of Glock, Colt, Smith & Wesson and other well-known makes, were made of high-grade plastic composites or metal but could not be modified to fire bullets.

"The replicas we encountered in our investigation were very high-precision replicas of popular gun models," Manzoor said. "Many even included such details as the real manufacturer's trademarks."



© The Canadian Press, 2008


Story from TELUS NEWS:
http://www.mytelus.com/ncp_news/arti...icleID=2966443

Investigation into who was sold everything...fun.

Great... I fear ASC is going to be getting some visitors....

It's not hard for someone to buy one of them then admit to turning around and selling it here on ASC. Then they come into ASC and learn hundreds of "illegal replicas" are posted for sale in the classifieds....

This was an interesting read.

*breaks out the neon orange paint* this should be fun

Not good.... What are the chances of someone comming here, looking for ones sold? If they did come they wouldnt be able to see the classifieds, because they are not age verified right? or do they have a way of "Bypassing" that?

wow, i had a chill run down my spine.

If youve been in airsoft for the past 2 years in BC, you would know these people named in the article and which stores they ran.

They were very big suppliers here. Where a GBB ran you $200 and a AEG for about $400

Most of you guys have not been on ASC long enough to remember the guys named above.

Will Wong - Specarms
Matt Walsh - Warcraft Games
Peter Kang - Xtreme Precision, APEC, Blue Seas Trading and others

These were the guys who were in the last round of huge enforcement action by the CBSA. The whole "OMFG!! The sky is falling" shit from 2 years ago. Well, now you see the result.

These guys were large importers who sold many guns, and now the supply has virtually dried up. I'm sure that more arrests will follow, these weren't the only guys, but the biggest for certain.

And here I thought Kang was dead...

For the younger crowd who are facing their first "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING", please refrain from panicking. I doubt we're going to have party vans knocking on our doors just yet.

Sorry to hear about Will. Great guy to do business with.

wouldn't be hard for a CBSA agent to put the squeeze on a verifier, trade it for some like not arresting them or some sort of spook tactic.

Like I said earlier, how hard is it to track down that Peter sold a gun to Frank. They go talk to Frank and want to know where the gun is. Frank tells them he sold it on Airsoftcanada.com. They come in here and realize that "illegal replicas" are being sold (not hard look at the classified names lol). So they contact a verifier (there's a list or find somewhere around the age verified thing, they have entire teams of computer geeks to do that sort of shit). Once they get in they start copying names, or HELL start "purchasing" guns to get bank info, emails, names, and addresses (I never put a return address). Or they set up a "sting" and sell guns to get addresses. :D

He is actually, may he RIP.
He brought airsoft into Canada and started its growth.

Tax dollars well spent. It's a relief to know no one aboard a Greyhound bus is going to get decapitated by some evil replica firearm.

</disgust>

Oh fuck off CBSA, don't you have anything better to do....

Not to sound paranoid or anything, but "THEY" have been here for long. The powers that be know about this place, this sport and the sales, don't kid yourselves the powers that be have been living amongst us for a while.

Ive known that for awhile, just trying to stir up a few noobs is all! :D

So chances are it's no big huge problem, he on the forums?

Yes, and how was it that Red Tiger got busted in PQ? Wasn't it in a face-to-face deal/sting.

o.O

So why is he being cited for offenses?

They've had years to do spy on ASC, if they were doing it, it's nothing new.

Don't panic is all I can say.

Best bet, don't panic unless LeGros or Mopic get busted or random people from the forums :D

Ugh... when will airsoft be less complicated in Canada...

No one is going to get partyvanned here :rolleyes:

Ah fuck... at least on the upside, there will be a crap load of cheap guns on the classifieds now due to all the people here freaking out and wanting to get rid of all there guns.

Was it Droc that had a standing offer of 5$ per AEG and three fiddy for GBBs during the last scare?

Wonder if he scored anything lol!

That would actually be the worst thing someone could do, given that possession in itself isn't a crime, but unlicensed transfer is.

So the scenario would be more along the lines of retailers getting spooked and pulling out/going entirely private and private sales drying up cuz everyone decides to sit on what they have.

Yeah I geuss there is no point in panicing, cause if they were going to start a shitstorm, wouldn't the have done it by now? And even if they do start something, can't do anything about it, so why worry about something you can't stop?

So....is the Flag Radiers game still on?

I'm not Colt, but I don't see why not.

lol, so...buying krakens...and then umm since i didnt like them selling them to ppl who want them....isnt a crime lolz....

Canada is so wonderful, ppl get scared of the smallest shit possible, if a person wants to they can injure someone with a popcan or a pencil or beat them with some stick or some shit.....

airsoft are just toys from crying out loud....

Im putting that in my sig

"Let's start with a magic trick...... why so serious!?" - The Joker

well at least its not as bad as what happened in 1998,

Right?........

This IS what happened back in 1998, they're only starting to play catch up with enforcement.

You mean the Firearms Act going into effect?

Investigation into who bought the guns...terrific. Guess I'll be expecting a call from the CBSA bogeyman any day now.

why do I get the feeling the London Police are going to come running throught my front door.....

I really feel Bad for Will and Matt. I may have had dissagreements with Matt But I really hope this doesn't ruin him, he has a son. And Will is one of the nicest guys I have ever met.

I hope that they come out of this.

"Visitors" have been lurking on these boards for years, nothing new. I'd like to see how this one turns out though.

You mean you hope it doesn't ruin him.

Holy frick guys, no one's going to get a call from anyone. Just to be careful though, you guys with sig lines listing your guns should think about nixing them LOL

Wow, and I just got in a PTW with yellow customs tape all over it.

Instantly criminalizing 1000+ otherwise law abiding (for the most part) citizens for having toy guns which they use for sport in a controlled environment, as part of a self-regulating community with rules and standards which exceed those set forth in the law books... probably not the greatest approach, not to mention an incredible strain on the courts and on law enforcement, and all for no particularly solid reason.

If they really wanted to shut us down, they'd likely take out all the retailers and provide an amnesty period for owners to turn their guns in (or sell them abroad, which is also legal).

The cases cited in the article are pretty specific, as previously discussed when "the sky falled [sic]" two years ago: people misused and abused a specific license they'd been granted. They lied about what the guns were for and where they were going. They tried to cheat the system and it bit 'em in the ass. That's what's playing out here.

CBSA and other agencies are fully aware of us. A Googles search for anything airsoft related usually brings up ASC within the first few results (and quite often as the first). We're huge on the radar. People who had no idea we even existed can find us with ease.

CBSA is also fully aware we import stuff -- they inspect, tax, and release all sorts of airsoft-related products; they most likely already knows who many of us are without having to sneak onto ASC or lean on Verifiers or anything contrived like that (and why would they? A CBSA or RCMP agent is 18+ for real, they CAN just get age verified without leaning on anyone or otherwise identifying whom they work for).

But the fact remains that ownership or acquiring parts and accessories isn't illegal, and I doubt they're on a crusade against the Canadian airsofting community.

Is it BS? I think it is. Kang & co. broke the terms of their licenses but the whole situation was brought about by some really stupid laws to begin with. Honestly there are much more import issues to be dealt with in order to protect the Canadian population. They're spending all this effort and resources on airsoft while we simultaneously keep hearing how departments investigating stuff like child pornography and understaffed and underfunded.

FFS, forget the replicas and use the money and manpower to catch real predators doing real harm to kids.

Ive gotten that damn thing about 4 times already today..... http://www.airsoftcanada.com/images/...n_banghead.gif

The question is whether they know it's legal or not. If they follow CFC's lead, CBSA would think that the acquisition and possession of replicas are illegal.

Now, if they want to the legality of replica firearm for individuals in front of a judge, they can. Good odds we'll come out on top.

You know as much as that would suck, it might actually help the sport, have a judge state airsoft are just toys and not illegal :D

Nice thought Drake, but all the gun-fearing voters hear is " Blah, blah... 800 guns siezed...blah, blah...charges laid" and their vote follows them straight to the polls.

I mean, Canada is much safer when those illegal replica guns are off the street and those involved are punished.

Perception means far more than actual results.

Anyone notice the emphasis on handguns? They could've emphasis how sinister all them black rifles are, but they didn't. Unless the people charged were importing just pistols for a good while, which they probably weren't, one wonders why the emphasis on pistols, rather than across the board evil military guns?

theres a discussion of this on CGN heres a comment

"They seized about 10 to 15, from the store. Where the number 800 comes from I don't know. It took 2 years to process the paperwork and charges, no wonder we have a border like a sieve. All airsoft and all sold to airsoft players. You can get the same thing in clear plastic damm near anywhere.

Nice hype in the story though."

so where does the number 800 come from?

The game is STILL ON. jesus.

I'll never understand why a kid (with a parent) could easily choose from large variety of pellet guns that could potentially severally harm someone MUCH more than an airsoft gun ever could. BUT if he wanted an airsoft gun that shoots 250 fps, it would be harder to get a hold of because it looks real.



Oh and by the way... ever notice that airsoft is spell checked as a typo even though this is an airsoft site?.... OH NO SECRET SPY TAMPERING WITH THE SERVER?

Yeah, 800 seems like a bit too many don't you think?

lol.....willie wong......

Does that to me no matter what forums Im on... :D

Probably because the replica guns being used in crimes or otherwise found in the possession of local street gangs are cheap handguns. In terms of replicas, "cheap handguns" are probably the main offender. If nothing else, the people using them are doing so because they can't afford a real "gat" [lol, I had to], so they probably wont dump $1200 for an M249.

Besides, that's pretty hard to conceal in your track pants.

...Specially with the 200 round box attached. :P




Ownership itself is pretty much explicitly defined as being allowed, it's the transfer (or rather the unlicensed transfer) which is illegal.

As far as parts and accessories, as I recall the tariff stated they were legal, but regardless they've been consistently allowed for import (full inspection, etc). Only receivers are being restricted.

My point on that, with regard to my previous post, is you can't just agree something is legal and let people import it and then turn around, change your mind and criminalize them overnight without warning.

Plus you have issues like the PTW (which someone even commented about a few posts up): they ship with enough power to qualify as airguns. But we have upgrade AEGs that could probably qualify, too: it'd be a quagmire to prosecute the average owner.

I believe this to be media bias, although it may be un-intentional... ;->
IMNSHO, handguns have never been perceived as belonging in public hands (except by gun owners.) It is far easier for J. Q. Public to accept private ownership of long guns, as they are legitimate for use in hunting and pest control. I believe that this is at least in part due to Canada NOT having a recent history of private side-arm carry, which is unfortunate: there are many instances where a side-arm is much preferable for predator or pest control. If one has a predator/pest situation on the farm for instance, it's much easier to carry a side arm when doing one's chores than it is a rifle (although it must be admitted that for some varmints, such as coyotes, a long-range weapon is a must).
(Deep Breath)
As a result, handguns are seen as anti-personnel weapons only, and therefore the 'most evil' of all firearms. (This and the ease with which they can be concealed.) If one wants to elevate public concern, one mentions handgun(s).
(Pre-post edit: after re-reading your post, I too now wonder why the 'military weapons' thing didn't come up. Perhaps the law enforcement report did not contain synonyms that were recognized by the media?)
Louis

The above are just my opinions. I am not in journalism or law enforcement, nor do I play such roles on television.

Keep your Airsoft launchers locked but not loaded, and be sure you don't masturbate for awhile, just incase.

We never know how odd a police raid can be...

Key quote:
Relax and smell the roses
(this being metaphorical for you pansies out there)

one quick point
 

It was a CUSTOMS seizure not police, this is not firearms or police event this is customs catching people breaking their import license. It has nothing to do with anything else, it could have been sheet metal, but you don't hear that in the news.

what got me thinking is... 800 'guns' would have been enough to supply at least half of everyone who plays in Canada with a brand new gun. Numbers are waaay off, unless they counted all the accessories and mags.

just journalist mathematics: 15 = 800

A method of calculation closely related to how the police put a "street value" number on drugs.

Ld

You think there aren't even 2000 players in Canada? There are at least 10 in PEI alone, maybe more. I think the sport is a lot larger than you are giving it credit for.

+1 :(

I was just gonna say that too. They alway highly (no pun intended) exaggerate the street value of drugs seized. I remember a radio report here a couple of weeks ago about cops pulling someone over for a traffic stop and seizing some pot in the process. The radio report stated something to the effect of "Police seized 2 oz of marijuana with an estimated value of $1200..." LOL Where the hell have they been buying their stuff???? Man, for $600 / oz, that weed better get me high just by looking at it....

So yeah, I suspect it's "journalist math" as started previously.

I love that they are doing this while Nanaimo container port is still the #1 port of entry for heroine in North America, and all because they lack the manpower to effectively search the containers. Good job CBSA!
Cheers,
Grant

Words cannot express how disappointing it is that law enforcement agencies would spend as much time, effort, and (tax payers) money to do these types of things.

People are smuggled into this country to work in the sex trade everyday. Drugs are smuggled in and out of this country easier than Airsoft.

Throughout my time working at XT in Winnipeg, I have seen so many questionable people bringing in clearsoft guns painted black, it would amaze you. or maybe it wouldn't. Despite our best efforts these people transport them in handbags, backpacks, pant pockets, jackets, garbage bags, and hats. We can yell and scream until we're blue in the face, and no one listens.

Walmart, Canadian Tire, Cabellas, and Sports Wholesale (to name a few) are worse for getting "replica firearms" into the hands of people that shouldn't have them, than the 3 individuals charged, combined.

I've said it before, and people disagree, but we need to do something to try and help our situation. By no means am I the person to know exactly what that something is, but there has to be something we can do. This is a democratic country, right? Since when are policies adopted by a government organization actual law?

Whatever. I'm not educated in any litigative capacity, I just wish things were different for the responsible Airsofters in this country.

You're saying that's somehow a lot or something?

That's what we pay them to do. We can't very well have them sitting around playing cards waiting for serious crimes to be committed. This isn't the 1940's ;) .

Different cops. Different budgets. Different priorities. Different agendas.

Amen.

But until clearsoft guns and spray paint are banned, nothing you can do about it. Although, spray painting a clear gun black may be construed as manufacturing a replica, no different than widdling one from a chunk of wood and spray painting it black.

Don't we all.

Have you been to PEI? Do you know how many people live on this island? Not a lot. And given that the number of airsofters tends to increase as you get more people involved, I'm sure the larger population centers contain an even higher ratio of players vs non-players. (Plus that group are just those that I've met or heard mentioned.)

wow, didnt recognize the name until you mentioned warcraft games. the other two i know but i dont think they ever faced criminal charges like this.
afaik will is still around still trying to sell off his awesome car. and i think peter owns a nightclub in korea or something lol, atleast thats what his msn leads me to believe.

+1

I bet I could cause more damage punching your teeth out with my fist, than with an AEG.

i'd rather a crook use an airsoft than the real thing. charges the same when he's caught, safer for his victims/cops until then.

I just read about this in the Calgary Sun, and was going to get online and "give everyone the scoop" on what's up.... Then I find that there is already 5 pages on the forums detailing what happened and it's potential implications.

In any case, I'd like to mirror the comments above that something has to be done. We need some leadership and representation for the sport at a national level, someone to clue in our elected politicians that this sport is being taken apart, piece by piece by the misguided policies of the CBSA.
Anyone feel up for the job? I'd be curious to see how the British players got together and had their voices heard recently when the sport was in jeopardy across the pond. That might be a good starting point. *** Does anyone have an 'in' with Arnie, or any of the major players over there, that might be able to pick their brains, get some advice and or direction that might help???***
I think that someone, who is mature, experienced in the sport, has a handle on the pulse of our sport across the country, and who is prepared to advocate for us in Ottawa should be appointed, and step up and start speaking out. I also think that it might be a very good idea for each of us to start making noise directed at our local MLA's and MP's on the issue as well.

Personally, I think if they want to go this way, then (dont flame me for this - its just an opinion, and probably wont be a very popular one, I know...) then create a replica licence for legitimate players and hobbyists. A short safe handling and / or written test, show proof of age (i'd suggest 18 or so since most clubs tend to stick to this age limit for players anyway), criminal record check to show you're not 'a gangsta' waiting for your 'throw down piece', and you get your licence. Showing your licence to a licenced dealer would then entitle you to purchase any aeg or gbb, and could also serve as a licence to transport your toy to a legitimate play area for legal use of the 'gun' in our sport. I guess, since I opened up this can of worms, I have to mention the ugly REGISTRY word too..... That could be kept very simple though, if the powers that be dont over think it.

The way we do things now, with anyone being able to just prove they are old enough, they have their parents drop a few hundred bucks to get their kid a toy gun... it's too open to the kind of problems that CBSA and the police ultimately want to avoid in the first place.

I think if we accept a little bit of inconvenience to have things done right, it will bring legitimacy to our sport, and cut down on the problems that airsoft has experienced in the past.

The one thing that has always irked me though, is that airsoft is so much more expensive in Canada, than in the US or overseas. I do not know the reason for this, but more than once I've read someone posting their opinion or idea that this is due to all the red tape and difficulty of importing airsoft into Canada. IF this is correct, then a licencing and registration process, and the resulting legitimacy it would bring to Canadian Airsoft, might even do something to bring the prices down for us...... Eh, maybe now I'm just dreaming.

OK, now I've said it, and opened myself up to FLAMES from every direction. I know this is likely to be a very unpopular idea, but I really think this, or some reasonable idea like it, might just be an idea that's time has come, and may save our sport from being banned sometime in the future.

I dont come on ASC often, so go ahead and tell me what a dumbass I am, or how my lameass idea would be the end of airsoft... I dont care what people think of me, I just dont want to see my favorite sport being slowly whittled away, until soon it is just plain impossible in Canada to play.

Sean W.

There's been a lot of talk about these types of ideas, but it never really goes anywhere.

This really isn't the place (thread) to discuss it.

But you can rest assured you are preaching to the converted.

we take ourselves to seriously, and I mean that on all levels. Talk of registering and having licences to shoot each other with souped up sewing machines, give me a break, I dont mean that to be offensive to the original poster of that idea cause I mean at least you are trying and putting ideas out there. Then on the flip side is how customs acts, fuck guys dont you remember being kids? and playing guns on the street with cap guns and what not, canada and canadian airsoft takes itself way to seriously.

You are absolutely correct on that it has gone no where Rich. Usually, because the players are afraid of what could happen from the govn't that all they do is talk about doing it. Eventually they either forget about it or quit b4 they start.

I think instead of flaming the underage noobs to tears, we should propagandize them until they are mature about airsoft and push them into politics and law so we have some people on our side to advocate for us.

For the CBSA spooks lurking these forums reading this post:

The above post was intended as a joke, not a serious suggestion, and in no way do any of us here at ASC intend to brainwash youth's to fight for airsoft in government and law. I think.

We're not afraid of doing something. If that's what you and 808 are taking away from the past threads, you either need to read them again or think a little more deeply. We can't just do anything because we can make things worse. we need a plan that works. Since no one has provided a plan that survives the scrutiny of individuals involved in the 2003 options paper, in addition to experience lobbyists on the forum, what are you expecting?

Oh and, the idea of licencing and registration is no go right off the bat. Not only is the Firearms Act not worded to support such activities, but the CFC is more against the idea of licencing and registering replica than they are against replicas themselves. They've got their hands full licencing and registering real firearm and their users, they are not going to stick their neck out and increase their own burden just so we have a good time. That is a fact.

Dont Jinx it, Ive got 3 Japanese 16 year old girls (at least they look 16, u never know with japanese girls) en route via Cargo Container... And i dont want to lose my $1.43 Deposit with Aqua.

On a serious note,
Airsoft Owners arnt in any immediate danger. First off, as it was noted, it was customs agents that arrested him, not police. The charges range from smuggling and falsifying the purpose in which they were being imported for, and selling them for purposes they wernt being imported for. These guys were big players for selling Airsoft Guns, not individual owners. Im sure that CSBA + RCMP, LE divisions are monitoring this site on a regular basis, i bet that a bunch of them are also age verified and have access to the classifieds. But im also sure that they will not expend and waste that kind of tax dollars to raid an individual owner. It costs ALOT of money and manhours to conduct raids + investigations, and no matter how big and import you think you are. Noone cares about you, noone cares that you have a bunch of airsoft guns, and noone cares that your playing airsoft and as long as you dont do something stupid with it, the police wont care about you as well.

The problem with Physical retailers is that Anyone can walk in and get one, which means that punk kids and "thugs" can get their hands on them and use them for a purpose that it wasnt ment for.

All you doomsayers going on and on about how "airsoft is at an end, Sell your guns now! etc", kindly take your posts to the trash, cause airsoft is not at an end. Theres ALWAYS the classifieds, theres Always going to be games and theres Always going to be people like me who are getting tired of hearing this posted every 2 months.

I disagree. I think everyone should sell their guns now! Sell them at as low a price as you can.($100 or so) You need to get rid of them a soon as possible. They are coming for you. I'll take all the evidence you have!

The problem I have with this whole thing is they enforce these laws based on their own interpritations. To the CBSA they are illegal and to most police departments they don't give a shit because they are not guns.

Welcome to Canada, land of the beaurocrats... and poutine. Damn you T7, that poutine thread of yours comes to mind again!

First thing...SWALSH, you're not a dumbass nor your ideas are lame. What you stated has been brought up before. For those who remember...Peter Kang tried numerous attempts to talk to those who are in power in the government in regards of this sport of ours. Every attempt failed...needless to say that shows the politicians are not willing to discuss this. In regards of registering your airsoft weapons...as we all know the known Bill C-68 was a complete failure as well way over budget. Now to do the same thing for airsoft would be a definately waste of tax-payers money and there will be no way anyone would vote to bring that in...not even the politicians themselves (takes out from their yearly bonus!). Perhaps more research on how other countries are managing to keep airsoft legal to own and purchase maybe an alternative way. See what regulations/legislations are in place for airsoft to be legal. A closer study to the US and UK policies and then purhaps when we have searched for every piece of knowledge, then maybe approach the government and show them what other countries are doing for this sport to be legal. By just approaching them stating we all are law-bidding citizens isn't enough to warrant a change in any laws. We have to provide proof as well dedicate ourselves to an commitment that we are treating these guns in a safe manner as if they are like their real counterparts.

As for the noobs that come online with us, instead of squaking to them they're too young and such...refer them to the FAQ section. Yes they are new to this sport and if we treat them like shit from the ghetto..why should they care what happens to the sport. More chances these new guys will do something stupid that will jeopardize this sport...they know that and they don't care. Coach them into safe usage of airsoft and start coaching them from the day they join and purhaps eventually we'll stop reading about some kid got arrested with airsoft in public. Let them ask their questions, no matter how stupid sounding their questions may be. We we're all once new to this site and we all asked dumbassed questions. Yet when most of us joined, we weren't rediculed for any of our questions, so why start now? Yes I know it gets frustrating to hear the same question over and over again but hey...let them ask. Doesn't mean you have to answer them if it makes you pissed off, let them be. Eventually someone else will answer their questions.

It all comes down to....what are you going to do to help make this sport live? By educating the new members on this sport and what responsibilities it carries, the better it will be for all of us in the end. If we can show that new person that we take this sport serious in safety and such, he'll/she'll follow through by doing the same. We are ALL role-models to the new members to the sport! By giving him shit for not reading the FAQ and to grow up and such...you're only showing you don't care about them nor the sport. We all have in one way or another bitched about the legalities of this sport and read about kids caught in public or committed offenses with airsoft. You may even know someone who plays with that Canadian Tire/Walmart airsoft in their back yards or what not, approach them and explain the sport. There has been numerous incidents where I have been in either Walmart or Crappy Tire and over heard kids talking about playing airsoft. I would approach them, identifiy myself to them and explain that I do play airsoft, not the cheap stuff either. I would get their ages and explain to them the laws of using airsoft in public places and the concequences that may follow if they are caught. If they are under age, I suggest to them to wait till they're of age to buy and I give them ASC website. You'll be amazed how many of these kids I've spoke to thanked me and are waiting to get of age. I've also told them if they have time to stop by one of our fields to see what all transpires at a game. That way they can ask the other players questions as well. Get them interacted with other players also helps their coaching. I've also had a few guys come over to my place and showed them my weapons and gear.

Again...what are you going to do to help make this sport successfull?

To the Mods: I appologize if this is in the wrong section.

The highlighted text is exactly why (I believe) nothing overly productive has happened in the last X years.

As for what I expect... Well, that's a bit of a loaded question (expect a long answer :D ). I expect an effort. From me, from you, from that guy (*points to the guy with the gun in the corner*).

Unless, of course, each and every one of us is content to just have our fun 'till "The Man" comes to close up shop, then this (and all related) discussions are just wasted breath (or finger calluses?).


On a serious note, and definitely off-topic for this thread - although it seems to be steering in this direction...

[[ Disclaimer: The following rant contains a lot of rhetorical questions directed at outer-space, no individual in particular. ]]

Why don't we start with the Opinions Paper and move forward from there? A lot has happened since then, especially in the UK. We could draw ideas from laws within the VCRA, and existing laws in the USA. We could draft amendments to existing laws and give them to lawyers/politicians to review.

As they are reviewed/rejected we can make further amendments and compromises until we have something Ottawa can potentially & realistically support.

I've said it before, and I feel I need to say it again. I am not a lawyer, and I only have a High School Education towards our country's political system. So all this may not be possible, but why not try? I mean, we did elect these people into office, didn't we? They have to at least listen, right?


Ah, but it's the long weekend, and I'm on a rant fueled by beer (Oh, Canada). So, it's about time I sign off, or oogle guns I don't have the money to buy.

I really see your point Saint, and I have no idea where to go from here, or what a next (first?) step would be. I'm actually shaking my head as I write this, because I feel like there is nothing I can do. I get the feeling a lot of us feel the same.

Sell your airsofts and buy real firearms (I did). Sure, you can't play wargames with them, but they are a lot of fun and the firearms community needs fresh blood.

The more legal firearms owners we have, the harder it becomes for the David Millers, Wendy Cukiers and Michael Bryants of the world to strip our rights

YOU can legally own pistols. YOU can legally own an AR-15. YOU can legally own an M-14. YOU can legally shoot all of them and more at your local gun club.

YOU CAN show everyone you know that ordinary everyday people CAN AND DO own and handle firearms RESPONSIBLY.

Firearms ownership in Canada has a future, and its YOU and ME!

Your frustration is very much understood and shared. Rest assured though, there are people on the forum working hard on possible solutions. You and I might not be privy to exactly what's going on, but the effort is certainly being made. If someone's machinations start to show promise, I'm sure we'll learn more.

YOU need to make a "You can"/"We want YOU..." poster :p

Nothing to do with fear mon ami, just being practical. Since I'm just getting old and lazy I will quote myself from an earlier thread:

I realised after re-reading my post, I should of not said "afraid" instead cautious would of been better suited.

I have spoken to guys in Law enforcement, including high ranking officers in the Provincial weapons enforcement unit, When asked if there is any enforcement action planned on airsoft he laughed and said " we have real guns, making real victims everyday, airsoft is not on the radar.

That being said, I would not want to open a retail store in Torornto, the chance of the thug element getting them is too great.

Instead of buying PTW's, every airsoft team should put a member through lawschool and then maybe one day, we'll have a large army of lawyers to lobby on our behalf :)

I thought wrong.

You underestimate the cost of law school. :cool:

Ld

If I was a thug, I would not buy an airsoft pistol, I would buy a cheap Highpoint arms 9 mm semi auto, cheaper or the same price as a GBB stateside. They can be had for around $500-600 in this country.

Pardon? Dude... In your sideline... you do not want to be saying such things

I am not for one second advocating the use or purchase of illegal firearms, I am just stating a fact that the price and availabilty of cheap guns, like the highpoints and davis industries guns is so great most gang guys buy the real thing. The criminal use of airsoft is so low, it barely is worth a mention. I bet more banks have been robbed with cell phones or sawed off sticks of bread than airsoft.

As for the price comparison a highpoint .380 or 9mm is around the same price as good quality GBB. For the terminally stupid, let me make one thing clear, I don't sell real firearms. I am simply stating a fact I have interviewed the ATF liason to the PWEU, and Regina told me that the price of real pistols has hit the sub $500.00 mark on the streets of Toronto.

I was simply stating a fact if I was a gang member, I would not bother with airsoft when the real stuf is so cheap and available. And clearly, gang members agree. (Shootings are up 30% over last year)

Mopics statement is nothing but fact. I have had the misfortune of running with some rather disreputable folks back in my old home town and it was cheaper and easier for them to get real firearms than it was for me to get my airsoft guns- like it or not actual guns are stupid simple for 'bad men' to get in Canada.