Front Cover Markham paper: Proposed Ban of Sale, Possession of replica firearms...
 

Hope not a dupe post;

This is aimed straight at Airsoft guns (excuse the pun). Front cover of today's Markham paper has article mentioning that City council is working to propose by-law on the ban of Sale and Possession of replica firearms. Now don't give me any BS about Airsoft not being replica firearm as it talks further in the article of "Toy guns" and mentioning closure of stores in Richmond Hill selling exact replica of guns (and we know what store their talking about). It further goes to site example of the shooting in Aurora by the youths with toy/bb guns at another vehicle.

The proposal is to have this effected for all of York Region and I'm confident will extend from there.

If you have friends in high places now may be a good time to make some calls to your council member.

* Personally, I understand the ban of sales but banning possession may make life a little difficult.

Opinions?

Found article online -->

http://www.yorkregion.com/yr/yr4/YR_...-4260686c.html

that suxs

would a petition help with this situation? maybe showing the government there are more trusted airsofters that they dont know about, than there are idiot airsofters?

I love it when they argue one thing and shoot themselvs in the foot. Ban on real guns work but there are still crime involving real guns. It is again just politions trying to look like they are usefull and not a waste of taxpayers money. This will make the muppet like masses happy.

a petition or a parade around the parliamentary buildings would be an idea...if we left markham to ban airsoft, and we don't do anything about it the government will start to ban airsoft as a whole just like the sad Aussies

EDIT: thats true too kuraitenshi, ban guns then ban knives then ban cars since they are the number 1 killers, i mean if we are like the states where everyone can have a gun the crime rates lower significantly (no break-ins etc).

If anything practical is to be done about it, it should be the whole 18yrs old to own /use law. That would be something reasonable. Sorry under18ers, but the whole legal age limit would be enforceable. I know some peeps are gonna say look at cigaretts underagers smoke them all the time. I know peeps who go and buy for them. However a pack of smokes is only10$, airsoft $500. The loss of all the guns combined with perhaps a, loss of busness licence for stores that knowingly sell and a No sale list nation wide would definitly make peeps think twice about letting these guns get into the wrong hands. Responsible peeps who only use their guns at games or home show(chairsofter), store them safely, and don't do the stupid shouldn't be punnished for the acts of the few idiots.

look at your calendar
 

It's election year... needs a "crusade" for votes


make sure you get everyone you can to petition with your ballot.

Creative outdoor is sooooo getting raided :p

The petition or a parade would be a good idea. What makes no sence is why ban airsoft when paintball is untouched. Some of the paintball guns look pretty real too and some sounds like the real one too. Also what Kuraitenshi said about the age limit. The 18 age limit is a good idea and well enforce but looking today some parents buy their kids these guns just to keep them happy they dont care what they do with it. I have people on my street who had their parents buy them those crappy tires guns and each morning I find airsoft pellets everywhere (i had a talk to their parents). I dont find banning airsoft guns a reasonable way of fixing anything. The thing that should be banned is the sales of "soft air, air guns and paintball" at canadian tires. These gun are easily bought by anyone and some people who work their dont even check age.

"If we ban hammers, nobody will need to nail anything anymore!"

The add a nice stiff fine / jail time for thos dumbass parents / friends / idiot who buys for a bit o extra cash.

What be better than banning of airsoft and replica gun are tighter restrictions. Right now regarding law on airsoft and replica firearms is really sketchy and need to be revised but not banned.

I was just at Creative outdoor today, they don't sell airsoft guns, just mags,BB's and batterys, no guns!
But its starting to scare me how stupid our govenerment is! They think just banning every thing will make a problem go away, and any one with half a bain cell knows its not true and will only make things alot worse! Hell I'd be willing register and get a permit for airsoft if they where smart enought to come up with idea like that! We get to continue playing airsoft like resposible adults and idiots will get easly cought if doing something super stupid and kids under 18 will not be able to get their hands on 'em! For the amount we shell out for this hobby I'm sure no one would object to buy a owning permit from the govnerment just to keep things safe and happy for every one! Isn't there a airsoft legal team or somthing thats working on legals of airsoft in Canada?

if you have to be 18 to own, why treat these as restricted fire arms literally. have it so you must have a restricted fire arms licence to aquire one. you write a test in front of a government trusted individual who determines if you qualify to own/operate a real restricted firearm that can actually kill someone, then you also prove that a)you know gun saftey b) are accountable for your own actions.

The only problem I would have with licencing is that the fees would be going to a gov that is about as usefull as a >>Censored<<

The licensing thing has already been hashed out.
1. Airsoft doesn't have serial numbers. TM isn't going to do it for some Canucks.
2. Less costly/more publically acceptable, to outright ban Airsoft then legalize, catogorize, police sales & license owners.

The Goverment (read:CFC) has wanted Airsoft gone for years, they're just taking a very slow, unaccountable approach to it.

Only sell guns to people who carry a PAL? It's kind of depressing, but I would consider it if I thought it would make a difference in the eyes of law enforcement, or the government, but I have no reason to imagine it would.

or how about the government stops interfering in our private business? airsoft guns are about as deadly as plastic butter knives

Airsoft is not as deadly as plastic butter knives. If you bring the gun to school, or use it in a crime, you can get shot, the police treat it as a real firearm, so if you mis-use it, it can get you killed. Literally (the force of the bb's) it's probably not life threatening, unless you modify it to give it high power ect. ect.

While I agree that the gov is >>edited for pro gov spin<< the best thing that has happend to canada with their wise decisions and fiscal responsibility. They earn every penny they suck out of our paychecks. >>>end of edit<<< I'll just say don't shoot your eye out.

the problem is that politicians don't fully understand the airsoft sport as well as they understand paintball....

get the politicians to go to a paintball field and see how we treat the guns and how we play or they could play too!

to better enforce the 18+ rule i think we should not allow parents to buy for minors. i mean we are currently very strict on airsoft and we are serious when it comes to safety.

that won't stop them from buying CT crap and having their kids paint it black.

that doesn't matter. deep down kids know that it won't look / feel real and most of them won't go through the process of painting them. plus Canadian tire guns are legal and have a low BB velocity. Airsoft banned or not kids always had an option to paint their Ctire guns black.

This is a laughable argument. I can go down to my local Canadian Tire and buy an air rifle that fires pointed lead pellets at 495fps. If a kid pointed that at a cop, the cop would be even MORE justified in shooting him than if he had an airsoft gun (since the former is actually capable of inflicting serious or even fatal injury, whereas the latter simply APPEARS to have that capability). Why ban airsoft guns and ignore airguns? Because airsoft guns look scarier? :rolleyes:

This is just another example of stupid, ignorant politicians pandering for votes.

You are right, but as Hojo said gov will take the cheap way out before doings something to help. Has the idea of all airsofters moving to a centralized area and succeeding(sp?) from canada been broached yet? It is as practical as anything the gov could think of.

Sooo...this is where our mighty dollars are going... HAH.

[edit] I will remove my head from my ass next time I post [edit]

But i do have to say that airsoft is so realistic in look, I really think that is some guy robs a bank with one and gets shot.... i wont mind, just one less person to ruin the game for the rest of us.... but the media would have a frenzy about the replica firearms use in a robbery.

You just gotta realize it goes both ways. A couple years back here in winnipeg a guy was robbing gas stations with purple painted handgun (dunno the type). Everyone thought it was a fake gun but the stores policy is give them the money no matter what eh. That is until some guy stands up to him and refuses to give him the money and realized very fast that his gun is a real gun, oddly painted purple... Ive seen the crime scene photos.... that guy learnt that real fast and too late

Diamond (or a mod) please delete that first line in your post. Comments like that will not help the situation, even if you were only making a joke. (Edit, it looks like I should have added that people should not quote that line as well)

Regarding the realistic look in airsoft, I agree it can work both ways. I read about gang members in the US painting a red tip on real guns, with the hope that whoever confronted them would let their guard down.

Also, I have always wondered about the logic of completely banning replica guns. True some crimes are commited with them, but would the government rather these people.. who are criminals, use a real gun when commiting a crime instead? Taking away replica guns leaves criminals with few options. Many will go for real steel.

True, replicas are a real danger when faced by the police, but so are knives, crossbows, and chainsaws. If you come at a police officer with one, you can expect to be shot. The problem is that some people just don't learn and openly play with airsoft in their front yards or parks without a care in the world. This, along with criminals using them for real crimes doesn't help things.

I agree with those who want the Canadian Tire junk banned and make the real airsoft restricted to those 18 yrs and older with stiff fines for breaking such a law. Kids had their chance to act responsibly and many of them blew it. Maybe airsoft games could be regulated to designated places? Something like the way handguns are controlled now. Meaning the locations would be on record, and new locations would have to be approved. No one wants more rules or regulations, but it would be a fair compromise to keep the sport alive.

I am not taking "the sky is falling" view on things, but I also dont believe that if we all just sit quietly and not make any noise the problem will just go away. If a city wants to completely ban airsoft, we all have to get together and let our voices be heard. This recent news may not affect YOUR city, but the next time it might.

Fucking grow up... This is a death threat... You should know better than write such stupidity. You should not be allowed near an airsoft gun. It's peoples like you that give bad name to airsoft players.

maybe thats why his age is disclosed and he's not age verified :rolleyes:

I wonder if there is a relation to people who don't think before they shoot and people who don't think before they post.

That post starts with a threat, and it needs to be removed.

you mean ''undisclosed'' right?
Still think he should be temp ban for making death threat, even if he didnt really mean it. This kind of stupid comment can give bad publicity to airsoft.

Everyone is free to give his opinions, but comments like that are unnaceptable (sp?)

its just to bad some people dont seem to get. if a crime is commited with replica fire arm they go all ape shit and try to ban it, but when a person is stabbed or beaten to death with brass knuckles or any other non-firearm related death no one could give a shit. its like "poor timmy got stabbed to death to bad" but when its done with a firearm its more like "that basturd shot timmy those ass holes if guns were banned non of this would have happened" you now what i can walk in to any room and find ways i can kill someone with out using a gun. like in my room i can kill you with a pellow, my moniter, stero, clothes, my desk, or with the pair of sessiors in my desk now lets look thats 6 ways i can kill a man with out using a gun and are any of those going to get banned? hells no. so more people should realize that guns are not the only way you can kill someone. punishing the majority for a crime a that a select few morons did is ot only totally unfair but complete retarded. the point made that if we ban replica fire arms only mines that bad people that want to rob and bank or store will have one less thing to pick from thus meaning more people with have to use REAL guns thats a very good point and i like that.

yeah comments that make up a death threat, especially against the leader of this country are not in my opinion acceptable in any case.... think what you want but realize saying it is different

yay, another stupid politician move for publicity!

But seriously, I bet you the "reported weapons calls the police gets" the article referred to probably was 99.9% Crosman crap from CDN Tire. And kids who shoots at cars on the highway, I can imagine them using Crosman crap too. At most, it'll be an airgun from CT or WalMart. I can't imagine any of who can afford a $500 AEG do risk such a thing.

Ontario's municipal councils are going into election mode, as they will hit the polls before the year is out. As a result, the councillors are all in silly talk mode.

This has the dual effect of both making councillors impossible to reason with as well as encouraging them to come up with silly ideas like municipal by-laws that they would have no authority to pass.

KD

im down for a HUGE protest infront of the parliment building. i would so drive from niagara to there just for it...

There is only one solution, and that is not popular here at all; 18+ for EVERYTHING. For guns, supplies, games, and posting on forums.
Until then, reading is not blocked.

That, wether you guys like it or not, is the only solution that has a legal chance of working. We ALL enforce it, or the government will enforce it for us.

Again, more proof that your an idiot. You think this is Harpers doing? What political group did you think was more firearm friendly, the Conservatives, Fiberals or NDP? You know, don't even answer because you have your head up your ass and all you will talk is shit.

Thanks Alan, I missed you around here.

Everyone just calm down a little bit. If they take your "TOY" airsoft away just get into real steel. It's hella fun and will never be banned.

I still love the argument, "let's ban guns (replica or real) and surely it will lead to a reduction in crime". Perfect, law abiding citizens will be at the mercy of criminals even more so, and heck, the thousands of people who enjoy airsoft simply as a sport will have that taken away too. Super idea. Just keep punishing the good while doing sweet fuck all to the criminals.

Why don't we stop chipping away at the rights and freedoms of the millions of good, hard working, decent people and just adopt Islamic law right now because of a few assholes? Might aswell get it over with right now.

And not to mention that lately here in Ottawa its been a mad dash for all the candidates to run the "ANTI CRIME!" campaigns. But at the same time, the one of the ones that got voted in here in Kanata Ward ((we voted O'Conner over in my part of Kanata)) anyway, this woman got voted in because she promised more police on the streets. Now she's saying that police are interupting with too many peoples lives because a damn Pittbull got shot when cops raided a home in Bells Corners. Later the owner had said she'd removed the dogs, but that doesn't make sense cause if they were removed then they would never have posed a threat to the officers. Anyway its just sickening that now everywhere I look its "BAN THIS! BAN THAT!" I would really love to get my hands on the Anarchists Cook Book again, make a couple hundred copies and send it out to the candidates to show that just banning guns wouldn't be enough, cause one trip to the drug store, or a pool/sauna store or even Home Depot now adays and you can get enough stuff to do a crap load more damage than a few bullets.


And besides, like Freedom Fighter said, more money to go back to real steel. And when I was talking to Greylocks one day and he was showing me some of the stuff that was legal in this country, we found that it was cheaper to buy a real steel, 1911 .45 Colt, over most of the FMU airsoft ones out there.



And Hojo, I would be more than willing to use my PAL to purchase guns. Even if there are no serial's on the guns it could still work to require a PAL to own and purchase them. Heck there arn't any serials on bullet casings but you need your PAL to pick those up ;). I would just like to know how that would go over for online purchases.

This raises other questions... like what is a democracy anyway? Sounds like someone is dictating to me how things are going to work, whether I like it or not. A high and mighty council of our peers making decisions based on what they read/see in the media? Hear from the police? Hear from their neighbours? I'm not going to mention any names, and I know it is somewhat of an infantile arguement position, but a local "politician" in my area once called Def Leppard, Death Leopard. This politician is not that old, but I thought it was funny how out of touch they seemed... and it made me think.

And those that mentioned election time... were spot on! They need perceived "issues" to combat, to look good in the public eye.

The bottom line, as always, is... if you properly store and transport your gun, and play on private property, you won't have an issue. Let's not worry about this and simply play responsibly. If they want to ban replica guns, they will, and there is nothing you can do about it.

personally i love that idea, in all honesty, if a 14 y/o really is steadfast on airsoft, they can wait. i know i did (even tho i didnt want to) and i belive it would also cut down on things like this.

(p.s i know i am not age verified either, but i can confirm that i am, how ever there are no thunder bay reps so im s.o.l for the time being, so im not being hypocritical s/p? )

So you really think that will improve the current system (which I fully agree with as it significantly reduced the amount of false buys, sale scams etc.). If a teenager really wants something, they will find a way to get it, whether its through parents, friends etc.

And preventing them from coming to games? The result will be them running games on their own properties (cottages, houses, forrests) away from the city. I think its better they play on designated fields rather than not. As for maturity, I've played with some players as young as 12 and they seemed fine.

And posting on forums? Who really gives a shit about that? I know a much simpler solution... IGNORE IT!

Well, just to put the knife thing to bed - a lot of knives are banned, but you can't ban all knives. Knives, along with pillows, stereos and scissors serve a purpose, they are essential tools. Real guns are obviously essential tools as well, and the proper licensing can be acquired if you are a person who requires such a tool, but the public acquisition and use of replica firearms is negligible from a strictly 'essential' stand-point. One could argue from the stand-point of film use, and training purposes but again, there are specific licenses for that. I clearly see the governments point if they declare an all out ban on replica firearms. I just hope they don't.

I bet that if they banned the crossman guns, or banned selling of airsoft, or soft air cheaply in any outdoors store, I bet that the people shooting cars on highways and out windows will stop. Noone is going to buy a $500 dollar AEG just to shoot at cars in the highway, and then probably face criminal charges, and seizure of the gun.

Price is part of the problem with kids buying these, but parents have deep pockets. Just look at the prices for Xbox 360 and the new Sony ps3. The Sony is going to sell for $650 in Canada. I am willing to bet a lot of kids will get something that expensive under the tree this year. If some parents will fork out that amount of cash for a game system, some will do it for airsoft as well.

I disagree. Most parents have no problem buying a video game system for their kids since it keeps them at home. Those same parents are less (that's less) likely to purchase a realistic looking gun knowing that their child will most likely not be playing with it at home ... althought there will always be the few exceptions.

I would gamble that most of the trouble makers do not go through their parents to get airsoft/BB guns but through their peers.

Greylocks is right, the best solution is too put age limits on it, everything should be 18+ by law, (if it isnt already, im not sure) But seeing how its all online, is there any really secured way? I guess if the government makes it a law, thatll be enough for them. Anyways, im not sure, but does this have to do with the big raid? If so, why would that lead to a ban, there just airsoft guns? Nevermind just read the article.

I hear about crimes commited with replica guns....but have yet to see a statistic. Anyone find one floating around? I'm betting the occurance of this is blown WAY out of proportion.

Politicians would do no such thing ... you can trust them, totally.

I could only find a statistic from 1997, but from what it said, the only listed offense from replicas was robbery. And replica firearms accounted for 6 crimes. I lost the site address, but if you google it, it's on the Canadian Justice site.

For sale: load of airsoft guns, come to my place in Ottawa to see the collection and make bids [/sarcasm]

Anyone up for a group trip to get our PAL's? (<-- thats not sarcasm, really, anyone in Ottawa wanna go as a group to get em?)

I'd like to get a headshot on Harper too, you know, bring my SLR and get some good headshots, maybe throw in some dynamic poses, could be the start of an interested photography collection plus I get to say I met one of the biggest ass holes in Canada (I generally dislike ANY politics or politicians.)

The incident in the article, which is about the groups of youths shooting at cars at Yonge and Bloomington probalbly has nothing to do with airsoft guns, but with the crossman airguns. I am pretty sure about this because i know that area pretty well, and there is a Canadian Tire right there, where they can go and purchase these airguns.

And about banning replica guns, i think only airguns and Canadian guns should be banned. My reason to this is: those guns are probably what most parents are buying their kids, or what kids are buying the most. I am from hong kong and have known about airsoft guns throughout mylife. When i started to get into airsoft, which was around 6 years ago (when i was in Canada), none of my friends or their parents knew what an airsoft gun was. My point is not many parents or kids that are raised in Canada know what an airsoft gun is, all they know about are the guns they see when they go to Canadian tire, and since those are the closest to real guns they can get, they buy them and be idiots with them. Not like airsofting, where there are forums telling people what is wrong and what not to do; there aren't any forums for those airguns; so the people who buy them don't know about the responsibilites when owning one of those airguns.

So my proposal to this issue it to ban all Canadian tire (or walmart, etc) guns, and have a age limit on buying airsoft guns (what greylocks said), or even have to have a license to play with airsoft guns.

No matter what we do as responsible airsofters, the policing of ourselves and the safety issues we all adhere to, there are always going to be people who for whatever reason, feel they dont need to follow the rules. Whatever way you look at it...it is those persons who are giving our sport the publicity that is not beneficial to any of us.

Setting an age to purchase and use airsoft as Greylocks has mentioned I would totally agree with. Maybe not a popular thing to do but are we here to get voted into office, or are we here to keep the sport we play and enjoy going?.....if we dont police the sport ourselves.....when it comes to the law makers, maybe they wont be as sympathetic and look at it from the side of public safety, banning all of it outright.

Another aspect of all of this is the media. Stories can be pretty much spun in anyway they see fit, in order to get "ratings" and/or to sell more issues. "The sky is falling" and airsoft is the cause.

One thing I do want to do in the future is invite a representative from the local paper to do an article of what airsoft really is, showing them especially how seriously we take issues concerning safety and gun ownership. Given where our club's new home ground will be located, it should send a positive message to the public how serious we are.

I have personally tried to sit down with the local Police to educate them of what the responsible airsoft players do. They didnt want to know so far. I am sure in the future I will have better luck. It will just take time.

I feel education is the key, while backing that with laws that would work for the benefit of us as players and the public as a whole.

While not reading/having seen the article from the Markham paper, has any local responsible airsoft groups contacted the paper and talked with them regarding airsoft???

If only we could get a video similar to the one that the australians made.

i agree too with the 18+ only and stop parents from buying airsoft for kids.
i agree to ban Ctire and walmart soft air / crosssman guns.
i suggest to have a "18+Airsoft Safety Program" which tells you how to responsibly handle airsoft, goggles, barrel plugs, gun cases etc. and people who passed should get a certificate or card. its not a firearms safety course its a airsoft safety course. one needs to pass before they can buy airsoft guns. this will stop kids for sure in buying these guns as it will be a hassle for them.

18+ is already in place at stores (at least they have signs saying so) and by most retailers (again some say they won't but do sell to minors) and there is no way to stop someone that is hell bent on getting one.

Canadian Tire will not stop selling anything that makes them a buck (or any other large franchise for that matter). If the government were to ban sales of airguns and softair and stores you can bet airsoft will be gone long before.

The 18+ Airsoft Safety program is completely rediculous. Why? I'm not trying to cut you down and be rude, but the safe handling of an airsoft gun is just plain common sense, same with knives, bows, baseball bats, the handling of your fork (could take someone's eye out) or your car, etc: etc: etc: ... Some people are stupid, and stupid is as stupid does. You cannot teach common sense and good judgement. It just can't be done.

We are the biggest airsoft community in canada, and we represent the whole country. If we proposed a 18+ rule our selves, would that show responsibility on our behalf, and possibly show how serious we are about this? just a suggestion, i dont know what kind of complications would arise.

Not a chance, but nice try. There is a substantial airsoft population, much larger than the online community, which has never heard of ASC.

Well, it's an issue of what you're trying to accomplish. You say, "show responsibility on our behalf." Who are you trying to show responsibility to? To what end?

Whatever agenda you might be trying to articulate, the fact is that changes to the laws we deal with ultimately require a legislative amendment, which isn't really feasible at this time. I had articulated my thoughts on this in another thread.

Although certainly well-meaning in your intent, I don't see enough here to bring forward to anyone.

KD

True, I agree, again it was just an idea, and i dont understand the articulation of the proposition, but an idea no the less isnt a bad place to start.

When I got my airgun from CT like 5 yrs back, they did check my ID and made a record of it. That system might still be in place for airguns. Just not sure about the clearsoft.

There has been a lot of ideas flowing through this thread, however even if they are implemented, there is no way for us to show to the media, gov't or general public how our self-governing body works doesn't matter how efficient it is.

YRP say 32 percent of all robberies use "replica guns" - they do not say what type or what the are if they are mofdel guns, painted clearsoft, lighters (pistol lighters) or airsoft ... no stats on that yet...but still digging

- now don't get me wrong i am just relaying information.

there is an even simpilar solution only reps from clubs can order ONLY. they can then sell to their members ONLY. nobody but people who play the game can purchase guns. if you dont play you dont need the gun.

X2

PTE PYLE, that might not work. For instance there is a club in Smith Falls that allows patrons to smoke because it is a private club for smokers. But the owner is being charged with anti-smoking legislature even throught the club is supposed to be private. However a club in Montreal allows swingers to go... well you know what swingers do.

It just seems that an attempt that way won't go over so well.

My personal opinion is you should have a "airsoft rated licence" or restricted to even get the ones at ct never mind our type of gear.

Reason 1 makes sure no newbies get shot.
Reason 2 makes sure there's less of that "mommy can you buy this for me" mom buys
(The parents would know why there kid cant buy it and is less likely)
It would make the airsoft community look more responsible.

There's many more. But airsoft guns should not be falling under replica fire arms. They should fall under low threat firearms. They are after all a projectile launcher. That can do harm. Not much but just the same can do harm.

if they would just enforce the laws we have we wouldn't have so much of a problem. possesion under the age of 18 is a crime and if you use an airsoft gun in the commition of a crime your charged as if it were real. England is already dealing with a stupid law like this and are fighting to get playing airsoft as a valid reason for owning them. seems to be working as it hasn't been banned there yet

im just curious what smoking and swinging have in commone. smoking has been ban not for the safety of patrons private or not but for the safety of the people who work at these places. swinging is not illegal, there are no bylaws that say 2 concenting people cannot have sex. just because it is in a public venue that is rented for the lose purose of that event puts no one at harm.

now to the airsoft side of this, i fail to see how this has anything to do with what you mensioned. if we could eliminate 100% of airsoft guns getting in to the hands of people who are not members of airsoft clubs then what is the problem. there are prohibited firearms yet members of certian clubs that use a prohibited calliber of ammo or a prohibited firearm can under certian circumstances use prohibited weapons. this is no differance all in all airsoft is prohibited, due to the fact that airsoft guns are replica firearms. so if we got rid of the flow of guns and you had to go through an actual club to posess these weapons how could there be any problem. lets face it no matter what the government bans of people want it bad enough they will still find ways to do it. all im sugesting is a possible way to let us keep out game and our guns and not be criminals, or living in fear of seisure.

unfortunatly this would allso get rid of 80% of retailers. allthough the ones that would remain woud have the sole market.

That's also true Jake, because most parents want their children to be happy, and get them whatever they need to be happy.

There've been a lot of replies to the original post so excuse if I say something that has been said in another post I haven't read.

Would it be advantageous to have several of our senior members, that we trust and understand politics / english language, step up to city council and let them know they represent our community? Basically tell the law makers that they are the experts around Airsoft, the replicas and the games and should be used as reference to assist with the law making. This way we won't have a bunch of unknowledgable (?) politicians making decisions for our future without our input.

The representatives can then reinforce the 18+ lock out of sales we currently follow but work to define conditions around ownership, participation in games that meet middle ground for what our Airsoft community wants vs. what the politicians want to do as a whole.

Basically we need to let them know that an organized community exists, we are willing to work with police and law makers, but we need to allowed input in our future and reinforce the size of our community and our presence in YORK region or other areas that may be effected. (Elections are coming up and I'm willing vote against anyone that doesn't listen.)

Worse case, if an all out ban happens then I say we hide this forum and website and make it by invitation only. We can allow the current user base to exist and simply have no more future members except those recommended by existing members. I also suggest we hide the Gallery section and all but the general and Off-topic sections areas from non registered users, if this isn't already done. * This are extreme steps to use if we have an all out ban, we don't need to panic as the article may just be a political ploy to buy votes and in the end may just fizzle.

Again, there are two problems here. One is idiots, one is the government.

The government has the power to totally screw us. Our solution really IS simple.

If idiots continue to get guns, the government will eventually step in and FORCE a solution. We will have NO choice. Do you want that? I dont, but there are just too many retards out there. We see a fine sample logging on here almost every day.

Our solution is to adopt several of the more useful 'real gun' rules.

1) Over 18, period. Not 16 with parent's consent, 18. No excuses.
2) Must be able to prove they have a place to play (as for Restricted weapons, where you need a real range).
3) PAL, or something similar, to purchase. We have age-verification, it serves pretty much the same purpose and should be enough. We may just have to add a few more verifiers to the list.
4) No bullshit to be taken from minors. If they say Daddy approves, then have Daddy contact us.

Airsoft is a privilege, not a right. If we dont enforce our own rules, expect to have rules shoved down our throaths by force of Law. Then have fun fighting that... It's happening to real gun owners all the time. You dont want to experience that.

Wow. I can't beleive this thread didn't get trashed. I was convinced this would get out of control and get ditched.

There's hope for Airsoft afterall.....

Yes, I agree

The only way people should get airsoft is after a lengthy psychological assessment, PAL-like licenses and possibly little chips implanted in our hands to verify that we're allowed to use our @#%$in TOYS preteen kids play with in the streets in other countries!

Ok, now everyone continue to panic about our spor... i mean hobby

Personally, I would just like to say that if I was at a quick stop and a guy came in with a gun, I would much rather it be an replica. Worst case then is he hits me with it, or shoots me with a BB if he gets pissed off. With a real gun, if he gets mad, I'm dead.

I would perosnally rather have replicas easier to get, for criminals and others. If criminals had easy access to that, it may be chosen over a real gun.

My thoughts exactly. but try to reason that to a politician, if its 18+ and are sold and treated as firearms then i say put them in every store, so that way if some retard is bent on holding up the next petrocan it be with a much more easily obtainable soft hitting airsoft gun. also then the whole some idiot kid got shot by police for playing in the streets with one would but fruitless, he souldnt have had in the first place. so lets stock those shelves with airsoft, every store you can think of. next on the adgenda, the inplacation of a 4 lane transcontinental super highway between japan and canada to facilitate a steady flow of airsoft 8)

Since its impossible to vote against everyone, I guess you aernt going to vote?

Well - I heard on 680 News today that York region is pushing for the ban of all replica firearms. Boo-urns.

Yup. Just read about it here:

http://680news.com/news/local/articl...19_144902_3088

The UK government tried to ban airsoft as part of a violent crime reduction law and the players became very vocal on the subject. From What I've seen the players are winning becasue the law was being looked over again as to adding airsoft as a valid reason for ownership. When the time comes if enough people stand up to the government together they will have to take notice. jsut have to follow in the footsteps of what the english did.

trufet that's the UK... this is Canada, which means; Soccor moms = win, average everyday people = S.O.L

we arnt average everyday people. ASC numbers around 14,400 people...considering the newbs, minors, and those who just join but dont do anything, Ill bet there are less then 8,000 actual players in Canada. No one gives a rats ass about airsoft. All it looks like is a bunch of people running around with guns. Thats all it will ever look like.
Just look at the ASC off-topic. There are countless threads that turn into vigilante killing discussions. Some very radical ideas on these forums. Its not hard to assume that average everyday people would look at airsofters as dangerous, unbalanced people. I dont blame them. You got young men and middle aged people playing solider...posing with gun, terrorist training, etc.
Lets face the facts, airsoft attracts a specific breed of people...and over the past few years, that breed of people is viewed as a problem.
Normal grown men dont go out and do role-playing.

I think we can all agree that those +30 year olds who get togher, dress like wizards and elves and fight eachother with foam swords are freaks. They arnt right. Be it old vergins or failed dreams....its fucked.
...same with those wackos who dress up like transformers and shit....
airsoft is the same crap....cept we look cooler.
But its basically all live action role-playing games.
http://www.keepmyfile.com/thumb/11587058094f7f44.gif
http://www.keepmyfile.com/thumb/115870584748603c.gif
http://www.keepmyfile.com/thumb/115870611054a862.gif
So you got live action role playing, cosplay, airsoft....but you wanna know what the public sees?
http://www.keepmyfile.com/thumb/1158705966cbcd06.gif

the be all, end all is that no matter what, the average everyday person will look at us and see problems. Our numbers are so small, pushing back against the goverment isnt gonna do shit.

You think if your gearing up at foxden and someone makes a wrong turn in the foxden drive and sees a bunch people with assault weapons....you know whats in their heads....terrorist training camp like the one they found during the toronto terrorist raids. And shit, with all the radical talk that goes on in these forums, they would have every reason to think that...

And lets face it, we all heard stories of people using airsoft for crimes. Last year I got someone on MSN who was asking me where to find a holster for his M11 so he could hide it when he went out on friday nights and then scare people with it. Im sure there are countless people who use airsoft guns to commit crimes.

airsoft isnt doomed, its lasted this long...but we all know it cant last forever. Guns may be cool, but they dont help. You all can argue it all till we are blue in the face, but the dawson shooting and that shooting last year in the US where the kid had an airsoft gun, begs to differ.

dont get me wrong, I love guns....I love guns just as much as everyone else in here. But truth be told, I dont see the need for people to own handguns or other restricted firearms. Banning guns is no answer(ala "saying guns kill people is like saying pencils cause spelling mistakes"), but the only reason I need to own the guns that I do...is for hunting....

Those two things could very well be one ... just saying is all.

We clearly have to create a ban trench coats.

ultimately i think that people need to be in contact with their members of parliament... who knows they may well be receptive to our issues and may be willing to help. all it takes is one mp to (in theory at least) get a bill going.

im glad I found this thread.

Im all for the parade/petition at parliament.
Since this stemmed from a BB gun drive by, you ban BB guns. then they use paintball.
so you ban paintball.
Then the tourny ballers get pissed. then the **** hits the fan. maybe we can use the soccer moms that have kids that paintball to our advantage. if they exist anyway.

well with the last shooting that went on i guess its only natural for this issue to come up, we will go through the same cycle they will blame fake guns, then they will start blaming the illegal import of real guns and nothing will get done, because we have such a wonderful way of governing things in this country. The police and the politicians are just trying to make it look like they care, if they did they'd be working on getting REAL guns off the street, they said in gun crimes 30% were fake guns, well...whats wrong with that statement, that means 70% of the time people were ACTUALLY in danger, as for the decision on wether or not they have to end the robbers life, well who cares, if you are dumb enough to do that then u will pay for it. we seem to have forgotten about personal responsibility in this country. This will pass a couple regions will pry put a 18+ restriction on the sale of fakes but all in all it will slowly phase out until we get another moron with a real gun killing people. Its sad that the police are wasting time on fake guns when there are idiots out there somehow sneaking real guns past the police and killing innocent people. its simple and its sad the politicians dont see it, you take care of the real guns and make sure only mature people are dealing with the fake ones, if u use a fake one to commit a crime then tough luck they treat it like a real gun, it's common sense. but hey, what do I know lol:)

Kan someone add soccermoms to the banned word list... Im getting sick of hearing it

They wont care about airsoft as long as their getting some action from the drunk baseball dads

I couldn't read this ENTIRE thread, but i will add in my 2c,

I am all for the 18+ restrictions, i've seen too many 14-15-16... year olds with those canadian tire soft air springers that have been painted black to look real and cause shit, there are also thoes ones that get their hands on actuall airsoft guns and they are terrorising people with them and that is wrong and i know everyone will agree with me on that, but while they are trying to ban "replica" guns, actually speaking replica means non firing and clearly our guns fire.

And what about real BB guns, i don't see them trying to ban those, you could walk into canadian tire get one of those CO2 powered hand gun ones that DO look real and have a little mag that holds them shooting at 495 FPS with STEEL bb's but no those are alright? like cmon those things can do WAY more damage then an airsoft gun could ever do and i do believe the media and w/e is looking at those as well but who knows

this is all just a bunch of bullshit, i've been in airsoft for a year now {KAMLOOPS AIRSOFTCLUB represent (lol)} and this is the first time i'm actually worried about the guns i own and about the hundredes of thousands of dollars spent by people on this, like take a look at XP and specarms, they got shut down and we still don't know why, maybe its a CBSA thing for what markham is trying to do and there was 100K plus gone

i'm also all for petitions and "freedom" runs in ottawa and other cities

sorry if this didn't make any sence i am rather tired and hate long "speachs"

Would getting together a petition with all members of ASC signing it even help?

Perhaps we should be asking over at Arnie's what the UK airsofters did to keep the sport alive?

it may, it may not

but i'm sure we could gather a hell of a lot of airsofters, AK forum ASC forum and god knows how many others, it would be a mass chain letter

good suggestion Vivisector.

I think if every single person here at ASC thats registered signed it, would make a difference.

maybe we could also give the government something to work with, like a PAL or something as well as registration, which probably wouldn't happen because of the money involved

don't all airsoft guns have serial numbers?

:adding: and what about some kind of cooperation with local police, like inform them of all our games where and when they are held just so they know and we can only use our guns then and if they are used other then that, a fine and confiscation (sp) of the gun

sure it makes everything a pain in the ass but it may just come down to that and we have to deal with it

first lets ban airsoft becouse people could get hurt or thin they are real, then lets ban cars, cigerettes, booze, sports, computers and walking becouse they are all potentialy hazordus to our health. Then lets ban anything that does not conform to our bleeding heart mentality becouse some a-hole some where f**cked it up for everyone........ sorry about this had to get it out i hate c***P like this, some people get an idea in there head and wont stop until the wreck everyones fun, and all it takes is some young moroon thats played one to many fps to ruin things for every one. I hate people some days

As much as I hate politics, why don't we nominate someone to run in the elections. All u'd have to do is spout pollitally charged bs so the muppets vote our nominee in and then just legalize airsoft? no this not a joke, if we truely want to change the BS the best place to do it is from within the gov.

Whats going to happen to ASCA?

Good time to start selling off our guns?
-VM

If the airsoft community came under the scrutiny of an investigative journalist on a mission, one trip to this, or any of the other airsoft forums, would paint our sport/hobby in a very bad light.

Has anyone done a poll to establish the age groups that populate this site? I would go out on a limb to say 17-22 year old males make up a large segment of the airsoft community.

This age group is also under the microscope in most media circles lately with the increasingly violent assaults, stabbings , fights that go on pretty much in every city and town.

To approach media, legislators, politicians and come under the scrutiny of the rest of the country amidst these crazy times?? To me that equals the end of airsoft.


That being said maybe alien pulse rifles for the win.


Oh, im 43 , work for the public service, airsoft not quite as much as i used to, and really tell no one but the people i airsoft with about my past time. People just dont understand, nor do they want to .

I think I'll just quietly watch what progresses. I have been around long enough to know better than to think politicians care about what makes sense, they care about what keeps their asses in office.

Makes you wonder whatever happen to innocent until proven guilty. Shit, back what I was that age, you didn't restrict someone's rights on the basis that they *might* be an unstable psychopath. Think about this - the country wants to restrict the rights of gun owners and airsoft hobbiests on the basis that .001% of them might be psychopathic. What the ^%($&! is going on in this society? And what is worse is like lambs to the slaughter the public is slowly, voluntarily giving up its freedoms for supposed safety from that .001% - which, when they go psycho, will reach for whatever tool is handy to slaughter people - whats next, hammers? Better ban those too.

North America is fucked. Canada and the US are slowly going down a bad road to travel because history shows once you give up those rights, they never come back without revolution.

Also media can portray things however they choose to, even if its not right. Anyone that has been through maintenance enforcement will know first hand how it is to be labelled a "dead beat dad" simply by gender. However when the shoes on the other foot and its a mother that doesnt pay child support the media wont even look at it, because the image of a mom in a welfare shack with three kiddies clinging to her apron strings with no shoes is a more powerful image.

Clean cut soccer player in a nicely pressed uniform vs someone decked out in full combat gear with a real looking assault rifle with their war face on.......

Indeed, good time to be selling your guns because I'm always looking for deals.

Petitions are a waste of time, particulary electronic ones.

There is a method to lobbying at all three levels of government. It requires a dedicated, professional, well financed group of people willing to committ their time and know what they are doing, and who to contact.

Take a few minutes to think about what you have to really contribute to such an effort.

More info to follow.

LD

This just frustrates the hell out of me. (Like the rest of you)
I used to shoot real steel but decided there was just too much of this kind of stuff always in your face. Now this ongoing crap.
What, am I going to be restricted on just being able to play video games? Wait there already is a movement on restricting that too.
All this because a small percentage of the population go ape !$@%#! and ruin it all for everyone.

So what is the solution here? Anyone ? I dont know that there is .
I love Canada ...but I hate this. ( dont go telling me to move either )