How many of you guys use a red dot?
 

Hey guys, I was curious as to how many people use a red dot or holo sight on their AEG and how many use non-electronic sights.

Which do you use?

CQB, red dot on all guns (AEG/GBBP) except pistol secondary -- though I flirted with one on my G27. Took it off because I don't practice with it enough to have memory of where the dot is to sight in a pinch since it's a secondary after all.

Red dot on my CQB, Vortex Sparc and Bushnell TRS25, and for outdoors a bushnell 1-4x 25mm for outdoors

Depends. I use a Red Dot sight on my gun but its definitly not required. I always have my BUIS just incase and last might my RDS batteries died, so up the sights went.

BUIS are key. RDS for CQB, 4x optic for outdoor.

EDIT: Buis have a slight glow in the dark paint treatment

I use reflex sights on all my guns, except pistols and mostly do not even have iron sights installed.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...4e&oe=5686EB57
Aimpoint COMP M2
EoTech EXPS 2-0
Aimpoint T1
EoTech 552 (spare)

I use a repro T1 on my AS VAL and Ak's. Its super handy at night when aiming with iron sights becomes a pain in the ass.

I use either a replica xps-3 or t1 because it's quite a bit easier to aim with a single dot than it is to line up two points on your irons.

Also, using irons in the dark sucks ass.

I feel like I'm getting old. I use a 4x for everything, even CQB.
If it's close enough for me to not need a 4x, I can just aim down the side of the gun lol
In all seriousness though, I'm the dick that shoots through the 9mm crack in the door that you thought was safe.
I REEEEEAAAAALLY want a freaking leupold D-EVO though...

Iron sights on everything except sniper rifles, where I use a 3-9x scope usually set around 4x. I sometimes use iron sights on sniper rifles too. A red dot is just another expensive accessory that will fail/run out of battery/be shot/destroyed that is mostly useless for Airsoft.

I had most my optics for two+ years and I play more than most people I know, and have not had a single battery run out on me (Aimpoint batteries last 50k+ hours) and despite the optics taking multiple hits none ever broke. These things are designed to make it through actual combat situations I don't think you can break them with airsoft use that quickly. :)

Like common: http://griffinsguide.com/content/201...es-house-fire/

Aside from that personally I find aiming with a reflex sight faster than with iron sights.

one thing to line up versus two things

The more you use iron sights, the less you think about it. Eventually they line up really fast on their own without you actively thinking about it. A reflex sight is a bit faster, but its not going to magically make you a better player.

As for their reliability, of course, if you use real optics, they will probably last a while. But most players use cheap china crap that breaks really fast... and have crazy parallax. I like iron sights a lot better than cheap optics. I also don't want to put something on my gun that is more expensive than the gun itself, so no real steel optics here.

Also, iron sights don't fog in autumn rain.

Iron Sights. It works LOL

I think no one said they will make you magically a better player, but you yourself admit they are faster.

That is correct crappy reflex sights are pretty useless, I would never recommend to anyone using a crappy replica one.

Holson makes a very high quality reflex sight in the 200$ range, which is cheaper than most quality guns.

Eotech, Aimpoint M3 and Spectre. That's what I roll with. Some with iron sights in play

Just plain wrong. A $15 aliexpress red dot is good enough for airsoft. We do not have sharp enough recoil for it to matter and our accuracy is pure garbage compared to real guns or the capabilities of even the cheapest of red dots.
And lack of parallax in expensive optics is just a myth. All optics have parallax outside of the distance they are adjusted for, but honestly, the couple of inches lost to parallax are not going to matter for airsoft.

Have you ever extensively used a Aimpoint/EOTech or comparable optic for airsoft?

lol.

This is so wrong. Iron sights are so much more accurate than a cheap red dot. Cheap red dots have severe distortion in the lens that cause unpredictable jumps of the dot around, creating huge amounts of parallax. They also have a blurry unfocused distorted dot. They are completely unusable, you could aim better with only a front sight and no rear sight.

Second, the accuracy of airsoft guns is far from "garbage". Have you ever used a well tuned gun? The accuracy of airsoft guns is pretty damn amazing for what they are.

No offence but very few people can hit a man sized target at 100m range consistently. Id say none if we are talking about 400fps with .2 joules and no prior dialing in. So yes airsoft accuracy is garbage, good for what it is but still garbage, your optic is not going to be the limiting factor for your accuracy. Sub 100m, 10moa accurate optics will do for airsoft.

Oh and if anyone is considering chinese red dot, go with tube type, their reflex types suck.

I disagree. Mainly because I think you're grossly underestimating just how shitty Chinese optics can be.
Like, pretty sure the worst optics and irons would affect your accuracy on NERF DART GUNS.

Find the Eotech can be dialed in better than the aimpoints. I tried to dial my Aimpoint in but the adjustment range isn't enough. The Eotech is perfect. The Spectre. I got that bullseye. But it's a 4x's

Lol, this is off a SRS replica.

crap pot metal, and lol @bulb.

http://i.imgur.com/kk4ETJK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RL3OdWd.jpg

I run the same SRS clone as Bio above on my MR CQBR, just that my SRS hasn't gotten to that stage, although I bought it second hand with the adjustment dials broken. I just took it apart, shimmed it up, and zeroed it lol. It's a beautiful sight though, and it runs off rechargeable AA's!

For my KC02 (marksman rifle), I run a Bushnell 1-4x scope.

But yes, a good red dot is faster and is easier to see where you are shooting and adjust accordingly, so they are a recommended accessory for CQB and even outdoors.

RDS = faster target acquisition... I run irons though in CQB. I will pick up a holosun or sparc ii in the near future..

I bought a host of $50-$60 clone optics and they all sucked for one reason or another: could not hold zero, huge blobby reticles, wobbly mounts, broken buttons, loose battery compartments, and on and on and on.

I like a reflex/red dot, but a good one like a real steel aimpoint or a Holosun or something.

I'm looking at putting a 1-4x20 from bushnell. I'd love to throw my vortex viper pst on but then I'd need something for my real steel tavor haha.

Maybe I lucked out, it can be pretty hit or miss with Chinese stuff. Personally I wouldn't buy a China scope but for something simple and cqb oriented like a rds paying $150 is waste unless you have rs for it

When you guys say you use aimpoints and eotechs, are talking real or replica?

I'm going faint thinking you guys strap RS sights on to your guns, but hey... if you got the cash go for it.

I'll stick to my iron sights for outdoors.

100m is outside the range of airsoft guns (except a very few high FPS super tweaked guns). This is like saying a .22 round is inaccurate because you can't hit a target at 1.5km like you could with a .50 round.

I believe all this conversation highly depends on how invested the player is. If you play 1-2 CQB games a month or maybe a field game, an ACM will do just fine. I won't pretend to be an expert but I do have over a dozen reflex/red dot ACM sights and they do vary in quality very much. For example, I have one Aimpoint JH400 replica shear the elevation screw as soon as I tried to adjust. I have another version that has a fuzzy reticle. One of the two Aimpoint Micro clones has such a large MOA and bloom that it couldn't be "2 MOA" as listed by the seller.

The rest have held "relative zero" well enough for my purposes. As long as you understand the limitations and are not having to live with it day in and day out, an inexpensive one will do. Seeing a little ghosting or my a bit of my own reflection is not a deal breaker for the recreationalist.

Lastly, I have reflex/red dot sights on all my rifles because I lend them to friends when we play. It's far easier for someone to "pickup and go" with a red dot than it is to teach them to sight irons -- especially since those folks might only play 2-3 times a year at best. An inexpensive (not crappy) red dot gives them a better generalized idea of where they are shooting and fun for those few hours.

So, different strokes for different folks. I'm not going to say inexpensive red dots are awesome (ugh, my first $20 NC Star really is crap), but it may be sufficient for one to enjoy the game. If and when you get serious, go ahead and invest in an optic on par with the price of your gun -- but I hazard a guess that many folks won't have the discipline/skill to shoot a consistent grouping for that to matter.

What I will say is this... I have a little bit more disposable income (or obsession) than most and hence have multiples of things (i.e. Gold Match, sights, rifles). If you choose to go the cheapie route, there is a much higher chance you could get one of those lemons (fuzzy reticle, broken screw). Still, with a decent seller you can have recourse if you have lots of time and patience.

I use all real optics for airsoft, EOTech, Holosun, Aimpoint etc., from my experience replica versions of the above optics do not hold up to the long term abuse and are pretty much a waste of money.

"Good" replicas of the above cost around $50-$60 and are likely to break, you can have a Holosun for $200. If you play a significant amount of airsoft, that does not seem like an outlandish amount, especially since it will outlast a traditional replica.

Additionally the performance in terms of glass clarity, retention of zero, adjust-ability and night vision compatibility among other things make real optics far superior. Aside form that if you shoot "real-steel" guns you can swap them over.

they also hold up to physical abuse much better than the replicas. And if they don't they tend to have better warranty too. I'm a huge vortex fan for that respect as they have life time warranty and will replace damaged optics no questions asked.

You can find decent used RS optics on CGN for like $150.

TRS-25 Bushnell would run you better then depot and other china reps imho, but hey, who am I to convince you to buy real. People learn after a while from buying repro and fake shit, they last you maybe a good year.

Most rep's can't handle my GBB's anyways :D

Plus 1 to real steel. Although you can get a few decent replicas out there.

I run Magpul MBUS flip up sights. I like them in the thick brush and CQB, but that work pretty well everywhere.

There is a video of a guy hitting a 100m target with r hopped rifle at ~400fps about 8/10 times, he did spend some time dialing in. But nm that even at 50m, which is well withing airsoft rifle range your accuracy is going to be shit compared to rs. And no amount of rifle upgrade will fix it because a sphere is a bad aerodynamic shape and generates lots of drag/vortexes which add a significant element of error for such a light projectile. My point being is people use cheap china dots for plinking with success when they dont break/hold zero, doubt you need more accuracy than that for airsoft and reliability is not as much of a concern with lack of recoil.
My opinion is people are being gear whores for no good reason. Yes an expensive red dot has a finer and crisper dot but when has that mattered for airsoft where you are in sub 100m range. Then again, this is a hobby and if you have money to spend on rs rds then why not? Just don't bash cheap stuff as automatically bad, most of it is but there are exceptions.

Abouse and shock is not just related to recoil ... getting in and out of a vehicle, climbing through windows, falling on concrete etc. you can easily ram your optic into something, a real-steel optic will make it out alive a replica one will most likely not from my past experience.

Has mattered for me a ton especially in low light situations and even more so in combination with night vision devices. Fake once have very poor low light settings and no night vision settings at all.

That is what it boils down to if you have fun with a replica optic and it works for you at that price point that is all that matters.

However the bottom line is real optics will outperform the replicas and the more competitively priced real-steel optics are not even that much more expensive than the clones.

I have to say that if you're willing to spend $60 on a "decent" repro then $130 for a bushnell red dot is not much more.

I started with repro's and will not use them anymore. A simple knock to the gun while putting it on a table after removing from my bag has caused them to lose zero... then I have to spend another 5-10 minutes on the field with a screw driver trying to re-zero it. Saying they are usefull for cqb... well my MP5 can hit within a 1" circle 9/10 times from 80' which means I can usually hit the edge of a helmet sticking out from cover on the first shot just by sticking my dot on it. That gives me an edge over the other guys that miss or hit the cover thereby causing the guy hiding to duck down and now you've lost your shot.

Sure it's just airsoft and sure it's just a hobby but I don't see why you wouldn't get every advantage you can when a RS red dot can be had for $130....

You're probably talking to those who are happy enough with their JG and CYMA at the end of the day.

Nothing wrong with that, just different taste for everyone.

Oh for sure... to each their own. I don't look down or anything on those with lower incomes, in the end it's about having fun. You don't NEED all these expensive accessories to play, they just enhance the experience for those that can.

People use RS stuff all the time. PC's, holsters, rail systems.... etc. Optics are really no different. No one is saying you should go out and buy a $600 RS aimpoint or eotech but even a holosun, bushnell or vortex are really not that expensive.

I personally only use red dots (especially indoors) as I've had laser surgery, my night vision has suffered. That plus the fact that even though I'm right handed I'm actually left eye dominant. Using a red dot with both eyes open off sets those disadvantages that I have. Plus my income allows me to invest a bit more in to the sport so why not? Hell, you should see my RC collection...

Ah well I tricked out my aug and got a Firefield 1-6x scope on it only to realize it hasn't really improved my accuracy over a 16CAD red dot from aliexpress. The good thing about a 16$ red dot is you don't need to worry about it being damaged by a stray bb so no need for a bb shield which would distort your rs rds worse than cheap glass does. Though I have to agree real rds feels way nicer than a cheap one.

P.S. Im starting to feel like a cheap rds salesman, I gotta stop now..

Well a Vortex has a no questions asked, lifetime replacement policy.... so why use a shield at all? This isn't just about distortion either, it's about holding zero, durability... etc.

Haha, when shooting inside using heaby BBs, I can hit a standard IPSC popper target repeatedly at 45m with most of my rifles (some with iron sights too). That's about a two inches target. Hell, I can hit it with my Hi-Capa pistol, not that well, because you know, non-braced pistol, but still doable. I don't pretend to be a magical gun doc that knows everything or a crazy good shooter, because I am neither. BTW, one of these rifles happens to be a completely stock Cyma Thompson. I maintain that you can have great accuracy with airsoft guns and still think you need to use a well tuned gun.

Even at 200ft, if your shitty replica T1's dot glares out a foot wide area at that range, it going to be hard to aim for small body parts.
But it all comes down to what you're willing to put up with, right?
Can't blame a guy for wanting to save $800 on a sight, can't blame a guy for spending $900 on a sight because he wants better clarity, rigidity, and a crisp dot.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...g?t=1445462590

Strikefire Vortex Sight, even co witnesses with the irons.

The OPs electronic vs non-electronic simple question quickly devolved. To that end... http://airsoftcanada.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=10

Fake vs RS optics
 

Here is a good video explaining and showing differences between fake and real optics. Real optics can enhance your airsoft games....

http://popularairsoft.com/news/real-...-sights-part-1

Anyone used those Holson optics before? Are they considered real steel optics or not? I see the price tag reflect a lot of clone optics.

Not sure what you define as clone optic (it is clearly replicating the Aimpoint T1 design).

However, I would not consider $200 as the traditional price tag for a clone, that is more than the Priamry Arms T1 version. I have a real Aimpoint T1 and a friend has a Holosun, and comparing the two the Holosun is a great optic for the price. It can be used on real-steel guns.

Thanks for clearing that up! Have you shot a Holosun sight on real steel? Also are they made in China?

Personally I have not, but yea don over to CGN plenty of information there on them.

I think they are.

You can easily find where they are made in if you just search it up on Google, there are also tons of reviews if you truly took the time to lookg around/ If you are worried that they are made in China, your best bet would be looking at Aimpoint or EoTechs.

From what I've read, Holosun's are spectacular for their price point. This is airsoft so it won't really matter if you are using cheap clones or not. If you run AEG, China made ones will work just fine until they break. If you run GBBR, China made one will still work, but they won't hold zero for very long. Go for Holosun or the other real steel brands. I play with GBBR, and I've had both China made EoTechs and T1 replicas fail on me rather quickly, so I sold them and just saved up for a real EoTech.

Again, optics wont turn you into a pro; it simply aids you to acquire targets faster :)

Thanks you two for the info

Heavily just Irons. Anyone saying they need an optic for night, CQB or any other reason needs to train harder with their weapon.

How many of you guys use a red dot?
 

That's the same video I posted earlier. Also, part two has just been posted on ASC :)

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=174030&goto=newpost

The point of the video is not real steel T1 vs real steel copies or clones. It is about real steel optics vs toy airsoft ones.

Any real steel optics will be superior in airsoft even if they are made offshore. Simple reason, they are real steel rated. Although the T1 is the toughest off them all, the rest won't let you down if used in airsoft.

I have a real steel scope on my g36.

I have cheap airsoft clone panoramic reticle sights on my other guns. I don't use eotech clones as they lose zero very easily.

Basically watch that video, it is 100% correct as far as I could tell. The only thing I want to add is that most guns and shooters do not have the accuracy to make use of a good red dot and would do just fine with a $16 tube type assuming the intent is not to use it at night or hammer nails in with it. Personally, I've used a cheap rds with no issues until I got my 1-6 Firefield, I did use it with an AEG though.

Being Daytona Gun SCAR-L user, i had to use my real steel Lucid HD7. But given future upgrades i will be doing petty much killed instantly any replicas optics the moment i fired full auto.

No to mention real steel being more advanced or more durable than replica counterparts. Think about Vortex warranty.

By the way, my real steel Magpul MBUS Rear broke his mounting points. Shame it was nice to have while it lasted 2 games.

How would you go about to training harder at night when its pitch black?

To be honest I think Red Dots are useless if there is light available but when its pitch dark with no light and the only other way for you to see is to give your position away by using your tact light... I say that's when a Red Dot comes in handy.

On my p90, a specter 4x fixed, m4, a red dot, the rest being iron sights. (Other than my barret)

By practicing, using your natural night vision. It's not the easiest thing to do, but considering that humanity has waged war long before the advent of red dots, or portable electricity it can be done. Hell, even with portable electricity, the concept of giving troops optics is a fairly new concept, all considered.

What I read in your comment is a cop-out. You don't want to take the time to train yourself and know your weapon enough to use it in a low light environment without the ease of a red dot, and have clearly just admitted, that to you, the only other option is to not only reveal yourself with White Light, but reveal the location of those around you, as well as destroy their natural nightvision.

Go practice, I've done night shooting, and I'm not talking airsoft. It's more than possible.

I've heard of tritium sights for the diopters on MP5s for night-ops use; don't know how good or useful they are though. They should exist for M4s too. (Bear in mind I'm talking real-steel here; will be expensive AF to get them for airsoft.) But yes, Gato is essentially right. Think back to Vietnam; GIs used M16 irons 24/7, rain or shine, night or day.

That is an option, and some guys use glow in the dark paint or other stuff.

Exactly, Vietnam, WWI, WWII, Spanish American War, and pretty much every other conflict pre-GWOT, including the first Gulf War.

Tritium irons will cost you an arm an leg over normal irons so doing as Gato said and a dad of glow in the dark paint works well too. As for shooting at night, I will run a red dot but engaging at night is such a different beast than during the day. Your movements are so much slower and your trying to not give your position away. Also depends if i am using a tracer unit (and bbs) Generally I find an RDS easier but not necessary.

Basically its a crutch if you cant use irons. Familiarize yourself with irons, they work.

Hmmm I have lots of tritium vials "lying around" I wonder if I can retrofit into a fiber sight. In the meantime I've just painted them using superluminova.

As for a crutch, it can be. It looks like this is an argument of those that have time to practice and even get certifications vs weekend warriors that just want to grab and go or lend to a friend. Different strokes for different folks -- the key here is it's not impossible to use decent irons in the dark.

Like everything in life, red dots are a luxury, not a requirement. If someone feels more comfortable and accurate using a red dot then go ahead. I mean lets look at real life special forces, there's a reason they have night vision, red dots/holo sights, lasers... etc. Saying that just because they did something 50 years ago that it's good enough now... well that's just ridiculous.... what are you using to be on the internet? Do we need every convenience that technology has given us so far? Do I call you lazy because you drive instead of walking or biking to work? If someone uses a red dot then that's great... more power to them, don't mock them for it.

I was thinking the same thing 8bitninja! Was planning on ordering a bunch of the vials anyways for a side project, might as well see if it's feasible to do that. Durability is the hard part; by drilling into the sights, we're thinning out the metal dangerously. Plus, the front sight would be a bitch to mount a vial to. I think glow-in-the-dark paint is probably the most feasible option honestly.

checking a favourite firearms site
http://ctcsupplies.ca/collections/optics-sights?page=2

They aren't too bad, but something like a real RDS can be cheaper, produce similar results. Vortex optics are really really nice for airsoft.

We were thinking of DIYing it Curo, not buy the whole sights with the tritium. We have the vials of tritium, and we would drill holes into the rear sights to mount the vials. Unfortunately, the process would be rather difficult, considering how small the parts and tolerances are. Might try it for shits and giggles sometime though (when I get some time).

I'd use lower end real steel anything, rather than airsoft/replica anything. Well, almost anything. Replica usually comes in two varieties; overpriced and crappy make. I also find that good replica is usually only slightly cheaper than some real steel stuff, so it's often worth it to save up the extra $10, $20, $100, or whatever depending on what you're buying. Plus, you are out there in the mud, in the trees, hiking, crawling, etc, so your gear has to work properly. Your comms must be clear, your eye-pro must protect you, your gun must shoot straight, etc.

Too many players want something specific, and because they can't afford the real steel counterpart, they'll but a replica of it. What you need to decide is which type of sight you need, like say a red-dot, and then look at all the options. You may not be able to afford a genuine EoTech, but you could probably get something similar by Barska or Holosun. Don't be afraid to spend a few bucks, and if you have to wait for your next paycheck or two, then so be it. It's always a good idea to have backup iron sights. Your reticle may break, it may kill its battery, whatever. Make sure the dot is precise, or in the dark it'll blind you from seeing what your aiming at. Make sure the mirrors will hold during shooting and running and bumping around, or they'll be way off. This should all be quite obvious. Get something with forgiving eye relief and don't get a scope or a zoomed reticle unless you need it...

Companies like NC-Star or UTG/Leaper make some decent stuff, but reviews are mixed. I had an NC-Star scope that lasted a decade and worked well. Others haven't had the same luck. Wether high quality airsoft scopes or low quality real steel, at least check them out.

As far as airsoft with scopes are concerned, it comes down to your gun. An airsoft gun shooting 400 - 440 FPS on a 0.20g, can reach out well past 300 feet accurately on a 0.28g, 0.30g, 0.32g, if the hop-up is solid, and it has proper mods, upgrades, etc. not all platforms will do it, but it can happen. Your average airsoft rifle should be able to achieve 200 feet accurately and consistently at least. If not, either it sucks bad or needs some work. So, first you tune your gun and then set your hop-up do maximize use of your effective range. Once your gun is accurate and consistent, then you set your sight to match where your BBs are going. Accurate for an airsoft gun is hitting a soccer ball, or basket ball sized target at effective range. This may depend on your hip-up setting and BB weight, assuming of course both are quality.

This applies to allot of different things, im looking at rails for me WE, 200 bucks for a 'high quality' airsoft rail. I can get the name brand RS rail for 250-300. Sights too tho, Really silly how airsoft sights can be so high priced when going a little bit higher can get you an entry level RS sight thats better and not really any more expensive.

For airsoft Tritium sights are actually a better investment over optics, although a little expensive for a toy gun. Nothing to break if shot at and never needs batteries. Always ready for you when needed.

or you can get these airsoft iron sights and replace the plastic rods with real tritium tubes.

http://cdn1.evike.com/images/large/sight-gg047d-evk.jpg

What do you mean nothing to break? Those tritium vials are contained by glass... There's always the chance of a strike by a BB or a surface and it might shatter. That's why the paint might be a more feasible option.

As for the MBUIS, interesting... That will be really low profile though, dunno how well you can sight in without risers on it. Yeah, I can definitely see the tritium vials working with that, just might be a little too exposed in my opinion. Plus, if you flip up the sights, you'll be a nice glowing target to shoot at :P

I have a few of those vials. They are only 3mm in diameter. Pretty hard to hit if the vials are shrouded on the front and only the back exposed for stealthy use.

I run a replica EoTech on my m4 and I have to say it makes life 10x easier than using an iron sight. Just put the dot on the bad guy and pull the trigger.
(I only play CQB btw)

It also should be noted that tritium vials generally aren't very bright. I affix them to my keys and flashlight to find them in pitch dark. In the situations of low light, they're dim at best (especially going beyond simply green color).

Well thats kinda why people use them, a faint glow when looking through a sight, allows you to use the sight and not give yourself away all too much

I'll have to check it out. I guess when you're in constant darkness it would help. If it's dim, then your eyes may have trouble picking it up quickly.

Hmm... That's not what I remember the tritium's for... It's not so much as the glow allowing to see the iron sights themselves, but having 3 faint glowing dots that let you line up a target. Think of pistol tritium sights. Even if it's dim, it'll glow a different colour than the background so you can see it.

My ice blue vials glow quite nicely and really bright, so I don't know if your vials are getting old or just the manufacturer?