NVG and goggles?
 

I've been contemplating getting some Gen1+ NVG's for an up and coming night game.
Last 24hr game we dominated with better tactics and natural night vision, instead of relying on lights, but the people I relied on for our victory might be being switched around to the other team this time round.

I'm mostly concerned with what kind of NVG to use with eye pro, or the other way around.
What does the ASC community who has NVG use for eye protection, and what do they use for NVG that has enough eye relief to be used properly?

I just don't want to waste money on something that can only see 12º in front of me because my eye pro is too thick to get the full 40º it has to offer.

Any input is appreciated. (except for don't buy Gen1s. I'm not made of money, just meat.)

All I can say is avoid Gen 1.

Not an elitists opinion - it's just you are better off with your natural eye sight than Gen 1.

Any input is appreciated. (except for don't buy Gen1s. I'm not made of money, just meat.)


LOL

The man said it himself, he is not made of money. I can't in good conscience just sit here and allow him throw what money he has right in the trash without at least typing a two sentence reply advising him not to.

My work here is done.

Yeah, basically this - Grabbing some gen 1 was cool 6 years ago when nobody had gen 3, or gen 1 for that matter. But holy crap was that just a waste of my money.

It is FAR better to just put that money away and save up for at least gen2+. There is a reason you see so many 2nd, 3rd, etc hand gen 1 tubes up for sale.

Gen 1 or Gen 1+ are essentially useless. The resolution, signal to noise ratio, and gain are not worth investment
Armasight CORE is an improvement to Gen 1 in resolution and signal to noise ratio but it still fall short of a Gen 2
The only decent Gen 1 out there is the AN/PVS-2. It has a decent gain but there's a lot of distortion from using three Gen 1s
Gen 2 is a decent choice though I would suggest people to save up and go for Gen 2+ -especially those SHP (Super High Performance)
Gen 2 SHP are really good stuff but it is also reflected by its price (2k starting point) The resolution and signal to noise ratio are comparable to a Gen 3. It lacks in gain (If you play in games with atleast 1/4 moon, this wouldn't make much difference from
Gen 3 have better gain than Gen 2. It can produce image in very dark places where Gen 2 won't be able to. Signal to noise and resolution of Gen 2SHP and Gen 3 are really similiar (some old gen 3 loses to Gen 2 SHP
Gen 3+ aka Gen 3 Autogated Are the really expensive stuff. This is what the US army currently uses for its frontline troops. Excellent Signal to noise ratio, resolution, and gain (to put gain in prospective, Gen 3+ can produce gain upto 80,000X whereas a Gen 1 is 1000X). Autogating is great for playing games where people use flashlight, you can still have decent resolution under high light situation and somewhat protects your investment from bright light better than non-autogating (Gen 2 and higher have ABC -automatic brightness control, these still help perserve the night vision but not as good as autogating).


In terms of Eye-pro
Oakley SI 2.0 & 3.0 are probably the best spectacles out there. They are fitted really close to the face.
ESS Profile NVG also is a good choice though it protudes more than Oakley SI.

gen1 REALLY isn't good for walking around, too much fishbowl effect, but most importantly you need to refocus it constantly. But it's good for a riflescope.
Your options are this:
~$800 for a gen1 riflescope that allows you see about an extra 10 feet into every treeline, clarifies open fields, and allows you to see anyone's IR light and lasers, and a cheap class 1 IR laser with no windage or elevation adjust.

~$2800 for a gen2 monocular, helmet, mounting options, and a cheap class 1 IR laser that has no windage or elevation adjust
(nobody ever mentions the cost of strapping your nvd to your head, or aiming with it)
The sub $1800 gen 2 tubes can be REALLY shitty. Like as bad as the top end of gen1 shitty. The additional gain is disproportional to the amount of noise in the tube and it usually has the same resolution as a gen1 tube. Although you can see more, it's difficult to identify anything due to the noise.

The top end gen2, like the SHP and HP tubes, work very well. Only a bit less resolution than gen3 and with more noise. But they work fantastic.

Comparing my top end gen2 to gen 3 OMNI VI, in super dark areas they're quite similar in performance. Obviously a bit easier to identify stuff in the dark with the gen 3, but you're not losing a whole heck of a lot. The main advantages of gen 3 are in the autogating, and the fact their peak sensitivity is in the normally available IR light at night.

The night vision you buy is based on the people you play with. These guys will all recommend you dump $2200 on a gen2-HP right away or you'll get owned by everyone else with night vision. Well if nobody in your community has night vision, don't worry about it lol
I ran a gen1 yukon riflescope for years, and although the gen2-HP is a significant improvement, the gen1 riflescope was still much better than the naked eye.

MFG's will usually state the eye relief of their NVDs. For a riflescope you'll probably want something in a 3x, the zoom will help with the fishbowling.
And most of us just use ballistic glasses to use with NVD's.

You can get by with a crappy gen 1 hunting rifle scope, but that is all it will really ever be these days... A gen 1 crappy scope. If you have nothing I would say it's a step up depending on what your current role is at games.

You could go right to thermal for $1000 here:
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=169289

Which would give you a nice field advantage vs a gen1 nvd.

For any head mounted nvd and full seal I use smith optic low profile goggles, they are typically easier to obtain vs ESS now and seem to do the same job. These are handy if you're doing a lot of cqb and are concerned about taking a bb to the corner of your eye.

I agree with you, just thought very funny :)

Smith Optic Lo-Pro, or ESS NVG's. Got it.

Any other full seal suggestions for EYE PROTECTION?

Would JT's (or any other paintball goggle) be too far away for most NVGs to be used properly?

Not a chance with any paintball mask, even most outside the wire goggles... Smith optics OTW, ESS turbo fan, revision anything but wolf spider are too far out.

I would use either just glasses if your aloud (ESS crossbows are great) or I'd +1 smith optics Lopo and you can get bungee velcro straps for them that are way better then the head strap if wearing helmet and NVG.

Sorry man I will +1 weight, quality, noise. Gen 1+ money down the toilet. If your lacking funds look around you can find cheap rifle scopes ones for 400-800 and it will be more valuable the goggles.

Excuse my very noob question; but do you NVG pros here have any advice on how/where the best place would be to pick up a pair of dual mounted PVS14 or other similar monoculars side by side mounted as a bino or an ANVIS6/9 or PVS15?

I am not looking to get the best of the best of the best and willing to sacrifice a bit of performance to save some $$$.

Thanks in advance

NVG's are expensive, how much are you willing to drop? IIRC Qlong used to sell them, can try PM'ing him.

Budget is nearly everything. I myself am not a huge fan for Gen 1, but Gen 1+ is livable if you buy quality. Let's say a Gen 1+ Yukon isn't too bad, though I'd spend my money on something else. Gen 2 isn't a big improvement on Gen 1+, so don't bother, but Gen 2+ is a huge jump up and totally the best all around in my opinion, at least cost versus performance. Gen 3+ is amazing, but very expensive. so about $600 and up for a decent Gen 1+, $1,200 and up for a decent Gen 2+ unit, but getting beyond that can be several thousand dollars.

Yeah I saw these but was hoping for a bino style setup

dual PVS14 setups seem to be even more rare than AVNIS. PVS-14 monoculars are rare enough as it is. I think your best bet it to just buy a pair of monoculars as they come up and combine them yourself.

Or buy new. Unfortunately our dollar is the shits and you can't import everything. There are Canadian retailers for NVG though.

Check here for ideas:

http://www.nightoptics.com

if you look around you can usually find ANVIS-9 for cheaper than 2x PVS-14 or 15s, if you have a USA guy you can get them off ebay for cheap, or through europe. Check the Systema PTW forums, lots of NVGs come up on there.

Yeah I'd really love an ANVIS6/9, ...you mentioned "if I have a U.S. guy" I used to live there and have tons of access but since NVGs are ITAR controlled.....

As far as shopping from Europe, any suggestions on how I would start?

Thanks guys,

Go to the systema ptw forum, and buy NVG as it comes up lol
ITAR only applies to the US, as long as it's not coming from or through the states you can pretty much get whatever fancy ass optics you like.

Also, not all NVG is ITAR controlled. In fact, there's a lot of lower end gen3 stuff that isn't, including some ANVIS tubes I think....
Problem is accessories. Getting an old PVS-14 under FOM 1500 is easy enough. But getting a cheap ass dime a dozen J-arm can be a real pain.

http://www.systema-ptw.com/forum/

Lots of NVG comes up forsale on there.
How much are you looking to spend. I may know of a set of ANVIS-9s coming up forsale over the winter.

Team mates of mine use Valken Zulu goggles/glasses and Revision Stingerhawks with no problems with their NODs.
They're both gen 3+, should that be of interest.

I have run ESS turbofans and Smith OTW fan goggles with no problems behind my PVS-14. The mounting solution will make all the difference for what fits. I run a Wilcox J-arm and mount if that helps you at all.

Thanks brother!