It happened again "(
 

Yet another reminder why kids shouldn't be playing with these things unsupervised.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24648974

Not surprised they opened fire especially only a few days after the shooting in Nevada.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24613025

I can't help but think that they didn't have to shoot the kid. Kid shouldn't have been brandishing in public. :(

Parent's are responsible .. full stop.. their lack of oversight resulted in their child's death.

Agree, but look at the cheap chintzy airsoft gun he used. It was obviously not real.

sad :(

Must of been on high threat alert based on Coach's post.

Yeah, that AK-47 in the photo looks legit from a distance, so it's understandable. Silly kid should of had a it concealed.

Lier, you could care less.

Because "That shit cray"

There has been so many school shootings involving kids that I don't think they want to take any chances anymore.

And how would you know it's fake from a distance?

Another question would be, what was the likelihood that a real firearm was present? If it was low, which I think it was, then the cop was too fast to fire. Maybe that cop didn't think the chances were low, and under stress shot too fast. We weren't there.

http://i.imgur.com/zebyLQ0.jpg
Kidiots will be kidiots

I completely undestand the airsoft gun would have looked like a real fire arm especially in the distance, but I think the police officer could have waited, at lesast until the weapon had started to be raised towards him before he shot. To me it seems as though the event happened really quickly from the boy being asked to drop the weapon then being shot. But at the same time he was brandishing what looked like a resal firearm in public.

As for the sghooting in Nevada the child shooter seems to have known what he was doing, it doesn't seem like one of those "a kid finds his dads gun and shows his buddies", the main reason being becasue he took his own life after shooting the teacher and wounding others.

Social Darwinism...

if it looks real, you will be treated like its real...

....

the only thing that sucks about the whole thing is not too long ago the state of California had it in for airsoft, and this doesnt help.

I think the guy who shot the boy must go to jail. He should have make sure 10 times that this is a real firearm, and even then he could just shot the boy's leg, just to immobilize him.
With guns so popular in States they can't shot people dead on a sight just because they carry something that looks like a real firearm. And this was just a kid, 13 year old, this shoud have been obvious to see.
And I am wondering, the gun should have orange flashhider, this is the law in states, is it not? So it was probably clear that this was not a real firearm.

Wow there is so much stupid in this thread its unbelievable. Do you think a police officer has time to be doubley sure to verify that a firearm is real or not? Sure there is some discretion but we are talking about public safety here. While I do agree that these events are tragic, we cannot ignore the fact that an airsoft gun was brandished in public. And whats this bullshit about waiting for the kid to raise the gun to the police before shooting. Do you really think a police officer would wait for someone to point a gun at them before taking a shot to protect themselves? And do you really think its reasonable for someone to aim for the leg instead of center mass? I recall a thread on here not too long ago speaking about shot placement, and how aiming for the legs and arms is sheer stupidity.

Edit: http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=159398

Last few lines of the article, and first few subsequent posts.

You just won this thread chief.

It happened again "(
 

How about you go stand down range of someone with a rifle. You don't know if they have a real gun or not. You are responding to the scene and have mere seconds to determine if it's real or not. Are you really going to wait for a rifle to be raised towards you before you react? You are facing potentially a real AK with full auto.

In terms of them acting too quickly, we don't know the time line or how things unfolded.



Put yourself in their shoes. Are you going to shoot someone in the leg, who is turning to you with a rifle, so that you can determine if it's real or not? No, because you'd be dead. Also don't tell me that they should have aimed for the shooting arm. So that he couldn't pull the trigger. Shoot center mass and take down the threat otherwise you will become a victim.

Is a 13 year old is incapable if pulling the trigger on a real gun and killing people in range of the weapon? I think not.

Volteco... Thats simply not how things are done. There are no 'shooting at legs' or anything like that. The kid was brandishing what the cop could only identify as a firearm. The police are trained to shoot centre mass with no exceptions. The kid, instead of putting the gun down, ended up turning around to point the gun at the cop.

What do you honestly expect anyone would do if put into that position.

Look at the photo, the barrel was chopped off, No orange tip. And at a distance, the clear receiver is almost impossible to distinguish between something more solid. Clear receivers are common on the field I play at, and half the time I cant tell until I see it up close.

The kid was being a dumb shit and decided to do something incredibly stupid, which cost him his life in the end.

Orange flash hider is only mandatory for import and sale. Privately you can do whatever you want to it, depending on the state.

Police officers shoot to stop which typically means center of mass. Also I am not a lawyer, but most bylaws prohibit the brandishing a weapon in public. Concealed carry and open carry is not brandishing, since they are safed in holsters

It should be mandatory for newbs to read these news articles to help its sink in as to why we use gun bags and keep our guns out of sight. You end up paying the ultimate price, and the Airsoft community will eventually pay the price. No more game or guns allowed:(

buddy, do you understand what was each police officers was taught? they were taught to use deadly force, for fear of personal safety and public safety.
if you go around carrying an airsoft AK, even though it may be a toy to you, in eyes of the law enforcement, its a firearm and they can't risk it. so they tell you to drop it and if you don't comply, you are getting shot for failing to do so

Yep darwinism at work.

Kid Should be given a Darwin award if he actually Cut the barrel off to remove the bright orange it that i thought the gun must have under federal law in the USA...

I kept mine and it's not even the law here encase i ever decide i might want A bright orange tip on my not real gun...

Why was his dad not watching him???

I doubt he was using it with the front sight removed....
which makes me wonder if the kid wanted to be more Ganksta!!! and removed the orange tip...

irresponsible fucking parrents

in honest really I doubt the kid cared about the airsoft community...

this will be used by the Control lobby to ban milsim paint ball and airsoft again

I meant for new Airsoft players here. And I know it's just common sense to not walk around with anything that looks like a gun, I wouldn't walk down the street with a paintball gun. But it's amazing what I've heard some people say...."what's the big deal, there not real guns" Idiots I tell ya!

As soon as someone says "shoot for the leg" I know they're stupid. Too much fuckin TV, NOBODY FUCKING NOBODY is trained to "shoot for the leg" just fuckin stop right there.

The gun belonged to his friend, who was the person that removed the orange flash-hider. It's hard to know exactly what happened in this incident as many of the news stories have slightly different details. Regardless of timeline, regardless of whether the police actually told him to drop the weapon, regardless of anything; the parents should have known full well that their son, walking around anywhere in Cali with something that looks like a real firearm, could get beaten up, arrested or shot. I for one don't think the parents have anything to blame the police for. The responsibility lay with them and their son for not having the sense to bag that shit toy or not.

Fact remains cops Should be trained To Not Instinctively blow away children with out a second thought. being jumpy and over excited is no excuse.

Think about this for the pig lovers with your "he HAD TO BLOW THE KID AWAY TRAINING!!!!!!!! IT'S HIS JOB FORGIVE HIM"... Would you be jumping up and defending a Legal Civilian gun owner for killing a kid in the same position?

also in cali many think it's less serious cause Having a real one is less common...

FYI Cali is actually dumber then texas...

Dumb kid with gun = dead kid with gun.

I'm no expert on California geography and certainly don't know the crime scene in Santa Rosa, but I can make an educated guess on a couple of key things:

- highly unlikely the neighborhood is upper middle class
- gangs are probably a problem in the area
- cops seeing kids with real guns and committing real crimes is a much more common occurrence than in places like Oshawa or even Toronto.

Can't blame the officer for reacting to a threat.

JOC members have had conversations with Calgary police about 'what if' situations just like this. They were told to treat it like any other firearm call.

I'm sure the officer feels like a big bag of shit right now, but going on the information he had at the time he made the correct judgement call.

hey guys do we have a price for that kind of comment?

really.. I mean REALLY ?

shoot the boys leg... yeah right... is that a soccer mom behind that keyboard that has no idea how this kind of stuff works?

A spokeswoman for the boy's school described him as "a very loved student, a very popular, very handsome young man, very smart and capable".

Indeed, that was a very smart move.....:confused:

I bet he does, but I am sure his wife and children would feel like a big bag of shit now had the threat been real and the officer killed.

I love how people try to shift blame here: the root cause of this was the kid was walking around with what looked like an AK: did that make him a bad person, did he deserve to die for doing that? No, but from that point on he was exposing himself to the potential for something like this to happen, just like a kid walking up to a grizzly cuz he wants to play with the nice cuddly bear is exposing himself to the risk of a mauling.

As for second chances, moments before the cop pulled up another driver had stopped to warn the kid to put the gun away. If he'd heeded that warning he might still be alive.

Just popping in. Quite the shit slinger in here.

No clue of what details are right and which are wrong as each news outlet plays their own melody, so I'll keep my comments to myself as really, none of us have a clue what happened aside from that officer and the child.

Tragedy is tragedy, lets leave it as such.

Police Shoot And Kill Andy Lopez March, 13-Year-Old Boy Carrying Fake Rifle - YouTube

dropping this here

I totally understand. But 13 y.o. doesn't. He is basically just a kid, who still plays with little cars. For him it is all just a game, he doesn't understand how perilous it is. Just doesn't. Period. He is not old enough.
Common, guys some of us have kids too. You know what I am talking about. So, what if it was 8 year old? 5 year old? Would they shoot him dead too?
Police officers are trained to shoot in the center of mass... Now wait just a second. Are they some sort of robots, machines? Don't they have brains? They have families too, and kids. Anyone can be in the place of that kid. What of it was a toy gun from toysrus?
How easy it is for a trained police officer to disarm 13 yo without just shooting him right away. If it is not easy he should not be a police officer on the first place.

What if that was a real gun? Do you think you can disarm a 13 year old with a gun? Bullets travel much faster than you do. And it is protocol (as per my use of force professor [who is ex-ETF]) to draw your firearm when another deadly weapon is present. I trust that he knows what he's talking about. Also, at the age of 13, most kids without a mental disability. or even WITH a mental disability know right from wrong, and furthermore their parents should also know NOT to let their kid outside with a gun, real or fake. Not to mention the child was already asked by a concerned bystander to put it away cause he'll get in trouble. SO. The onus is on the kid, not the officer.

I disagree.

My 10 and 5 year olds have respect for both firearms and the Police - because I taught them too.

As far as the actions of the Officer - it looks like a real firearm! Should the officer have risked his life or that of any bystanders to hit a smaller target (while under stress) which may or may not neutralize the threat?

Center Mass - neutralizes the threat!

When I was 13, I understood that a cop with a gun pointed at me and yelling instructions was one to be complied with. Comparing a replica gun/airsoft gun to a toys 'r us toy gun, its a terrible comparison and does not apply to the situation. Had the kid had a toy looking gun the issue would never occur as the cops would not have been called in the first place.

The cop was presented with an armed threat. Even after warning the threat to drop the weapon, the threat did not comply. Full stop.

Age does not come into play here as cop does not have time to ask him his age, nor his name or what his intent is. His job is to protect himself, and the public from an armed threat. By suggesting disarming the threat, are you suggesting that the cop should run towards an armed threat to tackle him?

Well, I am not a police officer, and it is not for me to tell if his tactics are right or wrong. But I served 2 years in army, and I can tell I would not go to a point blank distance to an armed suspect, and then play some sort of western game "who shoots first". Police has (should have) knowledge and technology at it's side to deal with this kind of things.

it looks like a REAL firearm!

......and it gets you shot when you point it at a Police Officer!

Well, maybe it does. But it should not be like that for a 13 yo.
The problem here is the whole system, the police officer being just a part of it. It is very... "loose", permissive. But if you happen to cross the line, it panishes you hard.

What trade in the Army?

Because 13 year olds are incapable of shooting and killing people? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You're getting hung up on the kid's age and shifting the blame to the cops that thought they were facing a real threat and made a judgement call

The "whole system" yes the system is fucked but this isn't an example of where it failed, I'm not some pig apologist, ask anyone in off-topic, but in this case the cops actually did what they were supposed to do with tragic results.

Sounds like they really thought there was a legitimate threat.

Stupid parents should have got the kid a bag for his toy

I vote for AV revocation, stupids shouldn't have access to Airsoft lol

I would never let my kids walk around with an airsoft gun.

Other report was saying that the kid has borrowed the gun from his friend so, parents could have not even known about the gun.

It was not in Canada so not sure how it is called here. Basically we had to guard a government facility. My job in particular was to make sure all the electronic detection devices were in working order and go on patrols.

Stupid? If I see you on a field, there will be a BB ready for you with your name on it! :)

Hehehe get in line ;)

So you were a conscript somewhere.

So that particular 2 year career isn't really worth putting on the table when its time to ante up and speak from your experience.

Unless of course you received a special qualification badge for "shooting people in the extremities to stop them from doing what they're doing"; if that's the case then carry on dispensing your wisdom. I'll take notes.

Yes he did not deserve to die. But he deserved to been shot by police. He may as well to be alive if officer missed [vital organs]. But unfortunately for the dumb kid he got no luck. Sounds fair?

Maybe they should WRITE IT RED LETTERS ON THE GUN!

The cops a trigger happy idiot with a major lack of commonsense and self control and should not be trusted with a firearm.

Not sure if i asked this hear....

but if i did...

to those defending this trigger happy moron has any one replied to my "Would you say the same crap to defend a local Concealed Carry holder doing the same thing???"

A private citizen CCW holder isn't a cop, it isn't his job to confront potential threats unless they are directed at him/his family etc. , nice try tho

Well in the same situation so the same kid was pointing the same AK47 at him... Same situation... Get it right before you BS you way out of it.

nice try...

Cop was in the wrong... Nice trying thanks for playing...

FYI... why did the other cops not shoot to if it was such justified force?

It scares me that your Old enough to vote....

my 10 and 6 year old have been taught that if they see what looks like a gun weather or not it is they do not touch it. rule 1. they have been taught that if they are handed a " could be a gun" that they first ask if it is loaded and to have the person verify the unload, clear, they then know that it is only pointed at what is to be destroyed, ... that's right not wounded not warned not .... what ever. destroyed removed from this planet never to come back dead so sad to bad. they know what is to be considered a safe point . at the age of 3 my children understood that police are our friends they will help us when we need them and they are to always be listened to. if i was a negligent parent who let my children do what ever came into their small developing heads and didn't teach them safe and unsafe right and wrong, then i would be that parent that stands in the middle of my Ontario housing complex parking lot( yup i was a poor kid one of many from a real ruff neighborhood) crying "why did they shot my kids, they was just playin. why kill my babies you bad cop" but im not a shite parent. I respect the real and dangerous job of the police whom many have family's in the community as well. im sure as i breath that they don't get up in the morning and think wheres my coffee and gun i gotta kill me somthin today. i do believe that if someone any were any time pointed a gun or a looks like it real good gun at me as a cop i would shoot to stop the forward motion of attack, if this offends im sorry but get a badge i have a couple of neighborhoods for you to patrol, the belief that all cops are crooks is a imported system of thought from lands that have systemic blatant corruption from police to government, not so much here.it is sad that the boy died with a pistol in his belt and an ak in his hand , i my come off as a jerk or worse but where was mom or dad , where was the gun bag, why was it not treated like a real loaded gun with the respect it is due.
thanks
just my 3 cents

Citizens do not have the same training as officers with regard to dealing with armed threats. The other cops didn't shoot as well because it'd be over kill.

Again, that's not his job it cannot be the same thing, if he wants to play hero and patrol the neighborhood for kids running around with AK's that's on him.

A private citizen being confronted by a kid wielding a gun that may or may not be real, if he has a reasonable fear for his life he'd be justified in shooting.

Lol if that's all it takes to scare you maybe you shouldn't be around Airsoft lol

+1

So By your exact logic The cop was unjustified.

since other options existed That would not of ended the kids life.

Wrong call he's an over panniced coward who needlessly ended a kids life


thanks for proving my point.

Because a cop with back up in body armour was in far less danger then a private citizen.

No reports of shots fired?
No reported gun shot wounds in the area.

cop with an overly itchy trigger finger or racial hate for Mexicans Blows the kid away.

Sound proper call.

Cops enforce the law they are not above it.

First you sound like a troll using absolutes.

If the cop suspected an assault rifle, which is what an AK looks like, that can punch through standard body armor plates, plus a car body with a chance of penetration into a person.

If the calling was in a bad neighborhood where gangs are common it most likely could be real.

Cop probably over reacted, but if you are called into a suspected firearm case, you treat that as a real firearm until otherwise, as even if a bullet doesn't kill you it hurts like the dickens and could get you killed on a lucky hit.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/gazette/im.../imim_larg.gif

Looking at a use of force chart, the perception of grievous bodily harm which is an assault rifle can be responded with lethal force, skipping the previous communication,physical control,intermediate force sections.

Also 13 doesn't mean anything, he could be a big mature 13 for all we know, that looks older.

If you're deployed in afghanistan, and a kid points a rifle at you, would you risk yourself being shot? I wouldn't.

The FACTS about this story are:
1.) no one knew it was a fake gun, aside from the boy
2.) there was a shooting a day ago killing a couple students and a teacher. Keep this in mind.
3.) a bystander urged the boy to drop the airsoft gun.
4.) the airsoft gun looks real from afar
5.) according to witness statements, the boy turned towards the sheriff and it looked like he was going to raise the rifle at the officer.

Now if you were the officer, would you be more concerned with getting a kid to drop a rifle, or if he looks like he's about to shoot you are you going to protect yourself? Nevermind the "be a hero" mentality. I will bet money that most people would rather shoot the kid than risk the rifle being real and being riddled with 7.62.

You guys are too black and white. The fault is in both parties. I dont know why the boy didn't drop the gun when he was warned by a civilian AND police, and he should have known better to not go outside with anything that looks like a gun. When I was in grade 1 we had a police officer come to our class and teach us these things. Don't do things that would prompt a police officer to use deadly force...it just isn't common sense. The officer is at fault for shooting the kid but I really don't blame him. I would do the same thing if I were in that situation.

you guys have to consider the context of the whole situation. I think the biggest factor leading up to the shooting is the fact there was an ACTUAL shooting a day ago.

hehehehe way to twist words to prove your own shitty point

Nowhere did I say the cop was unjustified, I said if the private citizen thought his life was in danger then he would be justified.

The cop also likely thought his life was in danger, lol it took you that long to come back with such a shitty rebuttal?

Itchy trigger finger? Racial hatred, lol where are you getting these ideas from?

Are you Travon Martin come back to haunt the internet from beyond the grave?

you need to get out more!

Each take down is different. Better trained officers are not trigger happy, like shooting 9 times then a tazer.

But the incident in Calif, would have ended the same anywhere because the orange tip was not present.


This one happened in BC involving a paintball gun, and appears to be well handled even with a lot of watchers.
Paintball Gun Police Take Down at gun point Coquitlam Copyright Bcnewsvideo - YouTube

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...37446234_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...09855630_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...96917161_n.jpg

No i just dealt with to many cops who don't deserve badges....

Several other officers did not shoot the poor kid...

It happened this time cause 1 cop with an itchy trigger finger over reacted.

not the right Call Manslaughter and excessive force.

Cops are issued reduced leathality systems for a reason.

I bet they shot the kid cuz he was making them late for their weekly klan meeting, because they were obviously rayciss, right tray tray?

Police in Cali don't f*ck around with automatic weapons for a number of reasons. For those old enough to remember this, it's reason enough; 1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.1 - YouTube

And what if he was the only one with a shot? What if he was the only one in the direct path of that rifle barrel? Or what if he didn't have as good cover as the rest of the officers.

How many officers responded to the scene? What side of the car did he get out of? Was his partner all the way on the other side with good cover to feel less threatened?

We don't know. We weren't there. If you were, please enlighten us with the exact details.


Sent from my universe to yours

Thanks for letting your true cop hater feelings be known up front. It paints a pretty good picture of who you are and what you represent. As for everyone else, don't waste your time... no matter what rational you present it will not get past the fact that he is a cop hater and he has no interest in what you say.

AK47 Open Carry: Stopped by the Cops - YouTube


I"d just like to point out that California is an open carry state, (unloaded),
So under the law, walking around with an ak-47 may indeed be legal,
and the us supreme count has ruled that carrying a gun, even an ak-47,
Is not reason for the police to detain, or search in anyway. I believe they
Are able to do a check to ensure you gun is unloaded tho (Cali)

And lately due to obamas big gun control push, Starbucks, etc open carry marches, demonstrations or just normal law abiding citizens, strapping a firearm
To themselves in plain view of the public, and going about the day enjoying a big dose of freedom is a common and every day occurrence for the police, and the public, California more so....

So without any gun shots, etc etc I do question abit on why guns were pulled on the kid as he was not breaking any law.

There's a new thing the gun control crowd in the us are doing, which is dialing 911 everytime they see a person carrying openly and claiming to the 911 operator the person is carrying a gun around acting crazy, threatening, etc
Just blatantly lying so that police will arrive in force, with guns drawn and
Pointed.

Are you sure of your facts?

Are you sure it is legal to Open Carry an AK in California?

Do you think having a mag inserted counts as unloaded?

Are you sure?

Go to California and carry around an AK with a mag in it. Let's see what happens.

California is "not" an open carry state. In most states that are open carry, it is pistols "only", in California you can carry say a hunting rifle to and from your vehicle to your house, a gun range, etc.

Merely having an orange tip or the like on an airsoft gun, does not guarantee it is a toy. No officer anywhere is going to accept that, or should except that as there have been cases in the past where criminals have altered or painted firearms.

If the officer asked him to place the guns on the ground, and he was refused, ignored, given attitude, or the gun was shifted in even a mediocrely threatening manner, then his actions to "shoot to kill" were and are justified.

It is the parents that should be investigated.

I think A lot of you are missing the crux here....we're talking about the States dude. Cops don't F$ck about down south. Specially after 9/11....its open season on anyone not doing what Law Enforcement tells them to do (I mean that in the most genral sense...so breath before you react).

That said, cops are people too, and if anyone thinks for a second that the officer who shot the kid is sleeping easy....however justified, your dreamin' in technicolor my friend.

Walking around with a AK 47 replica....an assault rifle not uncommon on the streets in Cali let alone most of the US, is tantamount to asking for it...literally. Remember, California LEO's probably come across more assault weapons in a day than any cop in Canada would in a year....even in T.O. or Van....no way they're taking a chance it ain't real....no way. And right after that shooting...yeah what was it? Darwinism...hard to argue with that one.

as well as the kid who loaned him the gun and his parents!

Agreed. But it isn't so much that the Airsoft guns were owned, or even lent, it's how they were handled after that raises my suspicions. I saw the parents on TV saying how they couldn't believe their son was shot just because the police made a mistake in identifying the guns. The police didn't make a mistake, the boy did, perhaps more than one. How did a thirteen year old kid make so many bad decisions leading to his death by a peace officer? How was there absolutely no due diligence, or common sense involved? I feel bad for the family, but worse for the officer (if he followed appropriate procedure). As stated above, he may have issues doing his job, dealing with his family, sleeping, etc, for the rest of his life.

AR 15 California Open Carry Game Stop Fontana 10 25 11 0000hrs MOV - YouTube

There's two teens with ar15 and pistols at GameStop,
I'm thinking a cod release

Kids today are incredibly familiar and naive regarding firearms because of the amount of gun play on prime time TV, movies, etc. watch a few videos and they feel like experts on how to hold one while remaining completely clueless about any responsibility for safe use or real world danger around wielding them.

And when I say kids I see that attitude extending to people in their 20s who are green as grass but feel like experts as a result of their months of self directed training.

Yep, I get all my legal advice from youtube mega entitled gamer idiot kids.

And of course you've got a time machine where you're going to go back in time to when the video was made. Then of course that'll be fine vs. the current law down there.

Carry on.

Regardless of whether CA is an open carry state or not... big diff between a holstered pistol and carrying a rifle. The major factor here is that the kid was non compliant to verbal commands. He was told to put the gun down and did not comply. bang!

I suggest you all watch this. How would you do in this situation?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/high-profile-...ning-1.2102069

ok let's use a better example, I grab my 870, and hop in my car,
Drive 5 minutes down the road to municipal property load it up,
And start hunting along bike paths, etc

I should be shoot dead for doing something legal so that the
Police can feel safer?

Someone visiting from Toronto to ride a bike drives down, sees
Me hunting, they should call the police on me?

Everytime the Police or conservation encounter a hunter it should
Be at gun point so someone whom took a risky and dangerous
Job can feel safer? That's what police are paid for sorry to say,
And if they can't hack it, they should quit plain and simple.

few years ago I attended a park in Toronto, to check up on
A water reservoir, I hear clap clap clap! I go around the building
Look, there's 4-5 kids with airguns shooting balloons tapes to
The rear door screwing it up.

I called non-emergency and clearly explained I was with the kids
Right now, they were airguns, theres no real danger, come charge
Kids with vandalism please.

So yeah, I dialed non-emergency to not get etf, and twenty officers,
But I still got guns pointed at me, and the overkill response that was
Not warranted.

Make sure you watch on full screen.

You're using Canadian examples to justify an American problem?...nice....good work. It's common knowledge (...mmm...maybe not...) that the US suffers from gun violence in epidemic proportions....and therefore, understandable that their response is equally extreme.

But to answer your first example....if I was a cop and got a call that some nut job was letting loose on a bike path with a 12 gauge....legal or not, your damn right I'd call it in to ert. Did they not cover the common sense thing in your permit course?? Common dude!

A valid point.

Well.... I died.

You have got to be shitting me.

Where the fuck are you that has municipal property that mixes bike paths with a shot gun range? Beirut?

And I am surprised the 911 operator didn't clue in and tell the police to run the takedown your way instead of using their TTPs. Did you list your qualifications when you made the call?

[QUOTE=Danke;1846857]You have got to be shitting me.

Where the fuck are you that has municipal property that mixes bike paths with a shot gun range? Beirut?

QUOTE]

Bradford....apparently. Who knew? :banghead:

I can't see where there would be a "range" mixed in...but there are hunting areas (I can think of one in particular).

But it would be a mistake to confuse a "range" with a "hunting area". Two very different definitions....both in purpose and in interpretation by the law/conservation regs/etc...

I don't think that he's thinking of loading up in High Park, Stanley Park or somewhere like that...

Seriously? Hunting in Toronto? You cannot discharge a firearm inside municipal limits, anywhere in Canada. In Calgary there is a municipal bylaw prohibiting discharging an AIRSOFT gun inside city limits unless it is at a recognized facility.

It seems highly dubious and perhaps a touch exagerated to claim a hunting area is along a bike path.

Ok, here is 2 key differences.

1. You can appear with a gun in the places where guns permitted. Obviously city streets not one of them. If you know person with a gun already heavily violated a law, you do not expect him to be a good citizen in a first place.
Example: if you see someone taking out a handgun in a bank, you would not think he is just want to clean it, but duck or run away fast.

2. Policeman is not a ghost. He does not suddenly appear, he drives a huge car with red lights. If dump kid (and you with a shotgun on a bike path) see policemen, first you do is drop weapon and anything look like it, including a wood stick! You will not be shot.

Check the MNR/Hunting Regs for a listing of provincial parks that are open to hunting. There is at least 2 in Ontario.

There are x-country skiing, hiking, dog walking, biking trails criss crossing the park that I am thinking of specifically. Hunting signs are up around the area...as are the signs that say it's a multi-use park. There's a big house across the road whose property is within 100yrds of where you can touch off a round.

Obviously, all legal firearms/hunting safety rules/regs apply as they would anywhere.

But again...it's not a "range" where you should be setting up targets and blasting buckets of rounds. But it is legal hunting ground and if you've got valid permits & tickets/tags then you can be hunting there in the appropriate seasons.

And here in lies the fatal flaw in constructing an example for the argument.

Not on municipal property. Well signed and marked regarding hunting. If said cyclist traveled from Toronto, saw you, didn't see or understand the signs and called 911 the operator would tell them to get the fuck out of the hunting are. Not dispatch the entire OPP to murder you.

Pro tip. If you methodolgy shows up on this poster https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ you will get picked apart.

So when the officer asks you to drop your gun, you can yell, "it's okay sir I'm only hunting"? Even if you're carrying a gun in an appropriate way, and in a legal area you still have to drop it, shoulder, whatever, but cooperate with law enforcement. There is no legal right here or in the US that states, at least that I've ever heard, where you can have an firearm in hand, and not comply with a police request. Even if it's holstered, you'd still have to kneel and put your hands on your head.

ummm, nope. you would likely have dropped your 870 at the first order to drop it and then complied with Police until it was sorted out. Unless of course you are stupid enough to turn and point it at them.

As of January 1 2012 open carry is illegal in california.

Wrong at one paint. it was just won (a Case in the USA) that just because you have a holstered pistol in an OC or CC area, and a cop see's it. his does not allow them to approach or question you unless they have proof you are up to something or have reasonable reason to suspect.

That being said. In Canada if an officer conservation or not approaches a hunter. I can assure you they have procedure's. and if you drew your rifle toward them I'd bet he'd draw on and fire at you.
In Canada you must comply and put the gun down to answer questions or you will be shot.

This case is tragic but is life. and a Police officer's job Is NOT regardless of what some people think, to put their life on the line over everyone elses.

They may flee and leave your ass if it's what's safest. They are not military and can't be ordered to risk their life.

They are first and foremost trained to save their own ass and other people's. So when it come's to Maybe a real gun and I along with 10 others may be shot, or it may not be a real gun they go to the dark side, the higher risk and act accordingly.

This is no one's fault but the kid's. and to a further extent the parent's who let the kid use the gun.

(that whole thing was directed solely at you Ricochet"

To be honest...I'm not sure if I'm mis-understanding Danke and Jbone's posts to be critiquing my own.

The comment was made of where there would be mixed-use areas...I responded with a comment.

I'm not supporting or defending that boneheads example or poorly worded opinion.

Jbone made a post that said it was dubious and exaggerated..etc...which I took to be a critique of mine..to which I responded with more detail.

@ Danke...I never specified anything about municipal property or not. Reread my posts if you are critiquing them. If I'm misreading your post...sorry about that. Hard to tell on a forum.

@ others...don't read into "being able to hunt in and area" as "being able to do whatever the fuck you want". If that's what you're taking away from my post...reread it, you've got it wrong. @ Ricochet if that's what you've interpreted from my post about hunting in a mixed-use area then you're wrong. I plainly state that you're subject to all laws/regs...