Is paintball better than airsoft?
 

Hey guys the tittle bring you in? :p hehehe

I used to play pro paintball, I played many turnements all around the world including nppl Huntington Beach, played for some big teams, including meeting Oliver Lang many times..... I'm also a certified eclipse and dye/proto tech but I can tech any marker. I also played woodsball including wassaga beach paintball big game every year with a full woodsball set up do to sponsorships.. Over 2000 people. Blah blah blah and I have to say for the time I went airsofting at ultimate airsoft yesterday night! I have never had as much fun in my entire life doing another hobby or sport! I am now leaving paintball, and won't go back.

I'm am now completely addicted to airsoft! F&@$ paintball ;)

Thanks for reading
Quattro.

Atta boy, another convert! I too turned to airsoft, because paintball was simply lacking in everything for me ;)

Happy that you've seen the light ;). Cut the cord and ditch the tanks, hoppers and neon jerseys. Thankfully I bypassed that part and never got into paintball at all.
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs36/f/20..._by_NeoIho.jpg

QUATTROISKING,

No need to sell your equipment. Just add airsoft to it.

I have many friends that don't play airsoft but paintball only. I still hang out with them at the Wasaga big games with my paintball equipment. Still fun to see paint bust on people's goggles. Still like woodsball.

If you own a EGO or DM, I doubt it has a good resale value since paintball has slowed down.

You may want the new KWA KRISS Vector. I got one on order.

Thats what i keep tryin to tell my friends who play pb glad uve seen the light. U think that indoor was fun wait till you get outside and see what its like to actually have rangd and accuracy and not have to look at a bunch of dudes in florecent jup suits hidin behind florecent inflateable obstacles (laughs at speedballers) dont get me wrong if u like welts and bruises and 10-25¢ pr shot and in most cases an odd looking gun with a ugly ass hopper stickin out the side (not including of course the few almost nice lookin mag fed markers) then pb can be fun...ish.
Again glad u are converted welcome to the dark side or the light side... The cool side at least lol.
Hope to see you out on the field soon.
Only plus i can give to pb is the sound of the markers but if u can find an d classic as gun (escort system one of those may be right up yer alley the work off of an external air source and such) or even tbe new gbbr we are getgin into now so we gots the bang bang now too and we did have it back in the day lol.
Check the video in the link. I wish i could find one if those adound
http://www.google.ca/search?q=gas+mp...iw=640&bih=375

It's all about personal preference
Some people fucking LOVE nascar
I personally don't see how watching a car make left turns for 500 laps requires any skill
So I'm die hard formula 1

But yeah, personal preference lol
Welcome to airsoft! :)

Hey Hectic,

Is that a big bass you are holding?

F1? How about MotoGP and Dakkar Rally?

@OP: It's a bit of a loaded question. I'm kind of getting into stock class paintball because it's easy to grab your gear and go out to a PB field to play with it and spend like $20 for a day of play. Whether or not I'd actually be any good against people with 20+ BPS ramped electro markers is another question.

Also I find that day skirmish airsofters tend to be really trigger happy and dump hundreds of BB's with no qualms (looking at you mag ticklers...). Which is part of the reason why stock class (or super stock/modified stock) looks appealing to me from what I've researched and daysim/milsim games with ammo restrictions are more my cup of tea.

Nope lol i dont think ive ever seen a 30lb 36inch bass
Its a carp caught at the small/northern pond in mill pond park in richmond hill there are bass in there not many over a pound cpl of 3 pounders tho.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa67f8edf.jpg

This is a good point, personal preference; whatever connects with you. I personally enjoy Nascar over F-1, but I know that F-1 racing is incredibly more exetreme. Paintball's biggest strength is it's weakness; namely paint marking. airsoft is way more conducive to military style, tactical, combat sporting. There are of course smaller paintball rounds now, but you still won't acquire the versatility of airsoft in itself. Personally I don't want balls of gooey crap getting flung at me.

Let's face it though; the most extreme of us would be playing simunition games if we could.

Yup id be all over that not too sure how many others would be tho. Id say we are few and far between.

I hear getting hit by a simulated round up close is like getting hit by a truck .....at least we know hits would be called .....or cried, whatever.

Though I haven't had the privilege myself, I have seen the damage a Simunition round will do at close range. It isn't pretty.

Welcome to the Airsoft side "Darth Vadar Voice"

I myself made the switch from paintball to airsoft cannot knock paintball still fun no doubt

Prepare to save tons of money on BBs .. The money I spent a day at paintball I could go to airsoft twice for the same price

Walking into your car after your done playing no changing the list goes on

Cartman " Hey I can turn left better then you "

it's all about the 200mph wrecks! lol

Air Racing is where it's at. Never seen an auto racer pull 10G's in a half-cuban.

Iv never seen a jet that gets you laid ;)

Having been on the receiving end of .38 special and .40 S&W simunition I can tell you that it feels about the same as a close range paintball impact... Not pleasant but not day ending but definatly not something you look forward to...

Never got shot with a rifle simunition...

Happy you switch for airsoft !! Changed for airsoft too and I dont regret it at all, tired of seeing people running with dye suit in the woods ( nothing more annoying than a speedballer running in the woods, break the realism a bit :/)

I'm sure if you own a bizjet (like a Learjet, Hondajet, Gulfstream, or Cessna Citation) you're probably getting laid a lot. But that said it's not as "visible" as having a Ducati, Aprilia, or MV Agusta on the street.

I've also never heard of a Dakar rally entry being "sexy" and getting you laid (eg. BMW F650, Ford Focus, KTM) but I think they're pretty cool.

I'm an ex paintball player, I have played it all, woodsball, speedball , cqb and I gotta say that I am impressed by Airsoft, moving into it was easy and with a regulated field finally open it makes it that much easier to go play, the biggest beef I had with paintball was those big hoppers and the sometimes ridiculous use of different rounds, if you think getting hit by simunition hurts try getting hit at 330 FPS by some douchebag using reballs or monster balls ( different paintballs)

One guy I know took one to the head and got a concussion.

There's the first strike that my friend got shot by, let him a scar in is back. Was a pretty nasty wound he got and heard they can even break mask if direct hit with too high FPS (no wonder almost all fields dont let them being used).

That,s one of the thing that turned me off from paintball, too many idiot who use illegal amo or even froze them before bringing them on the field...

I got two bruised ribs once from reballs damn things are heafty and dense and i seen a mask lense crack like a windshield from a frozen ball noone likez frozen balls of any kind. Lol i made a funny.
Also the ammount of people who are clearly splatered with paint who try n say it was spray off a wall or try n whipe it off on a wall or tree to claim they didnt get hit far fewwer "cheaters" in airsoft and in most cases in airsoft its just an honest mistake of not feelin it through mitiple layer of clothing and or gear.
Horray airsoft lol.

One thing to note between airsoft and paintball would be cost, realism and overall fun while playing.

Cost is a slight win for airsoft, anyone can go get a springer or a cheap JG or G and G AEG from between 100-200$, most players pack that will actually work well for paintball( no 39$ walmart pumpers) your going to need to get a tippmann, that will run you 150 bucks and a hopper and a tank and a mask. it will all come out to a reasonably equal amount of cost. Airsoft kind of wins in this category as BB's are Far cheaper then paintballs.

Realism: Airsoft wins. No hopper, no huge tanks, just magazines and hidden batteries, if you want realism you get yourself a GBBR and that s*** is realistic, 30 round magazines, open bolt blowbacks.

Overall Fun while playing: I think airsoft takes this one, if i get hit in airsoft "oww, i am out" compared to paintball, you get shot in the lower park of your facemask you are going to be having a paint snack, also, you then have to spend 25 minutes to clean your gear in the staging area. Also some low quality paints damage clothing, another thing to would be geting overshot, in air soft i have rarely been light up while walking out, whereas with paintball there are so many 12 year olds they'll shoot their own teammates so they can tell their buddies in the staging area they rock and got "Mad kills".

Average age for airsoft i would say would be 20-21 compared to paintball where the average age is about 15-16 in my experience.


Edit :the cost factor was just as a starting point, Obviously if i go out and get systema PTW it wont be 100-200 bucks.

The cost thing is basically relevant to what airsoft type you play. I'd say airsoft is much more expensive. Granted there are a few expensive paintball guns, and of course the ammunition is definitely more expensive. However, running Systema/fight club guns with real steel accessories like optics, stock, etc; not to mention magazine cost, especially if your running a PTW or GBBR. Then of course there is all of the real steel special forces type gear if you want to make the most of your effectiveness. I've seen games with humvees, scud trucks, helicopters, etc. there is also thermal, night vision, back up weapons. You can play with a $200 springer, but if you want that thing to compete with the best guns, it's got to be a $600 - $1000 springer with $800 in upgrades. Bare minimum they can both be pretty inexpensive to play, but airsoft definitely takes the cake on high cost possibilities.

As far as realism goes, your spot on. I've seen some pretty impressive gun concepts for paintball though; but compared to airsoft guns they are not even close. Range and accuracy in airsoft is much higher/better, and the equipment is just better all around. You could of course wear expensive gear in paintball, but I wouldn't want my crap being covered in paint.

Fun is all personal preference. I've played paint ball a bunch, but other than the odd scrim I couldn't get into it. Airsoft I tried once with crappy gear and guns, against good gear and guns "at the time", and immediately loved it. There is no comparison in my mind. Although the two sports share some base similarities, I feel it's like hockey versus ringette.

Came from the same realm as you did Quattro. Did some rounds in CXBL and MXL for a few years. Before that was OPPL and TOC for a number of years.

To me its a difference in between competition and hobby/fun. I came to airsoft to relax, and have a slower and less competitive games. But I never gave up pb. To me they're two different elements. Sure they both use "guns" but its just different for me. They're both fun in their own ways.

And yes cost wise, airsoft is about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of pb. I'm used to dishing out 1G+ for markers (DM's and MacDev's), so it is a welcome change to get into airsoft and see cheaper pricing.

I'll never give up either, but to each their own as they both have their merits.

I disagree on that part, assuming you're talking about the gun/marker. Airsoft gearboxes are based on a 20 year old design, and all we really have is a company in Japan making guns for the Japanese market, and a bunch of Chinese companies cloning that tech. There's no real steps forward.

I have this discussion with a chairsofting coworker sometimes, who's been playing paintball for 20+ years, and he talks about how annoying it is to look at airsoft gear. He's watched the evolution of paintball over the past two decades, meanwhile airsoft is barely moving. He'll talk about how he'll listen to an episode of airsoftology, and when they say something like "hey, did you see this new thing that might be coming out? It's pretty exciting", and he wants to yell at them "yeah, it's called a such-and-such. The technology has been around since the 80s", or something.

The G&G PDW came out, with its adjustable velocity, and that's considered a selling point. You buy a $400 gun, and not only is it accepted that something will break within a few games, but it's expected. People are debating and explaining things about air compression, barrel diameter, and whatever - meanwhile paintballers have gone over all that a decade ago. (That was a bad example, but you get the point)

His analogy is that it's like airsoft and paintball came up together, and paintball got more popular, and thus had a bigger player base, was more profitable for manufacturers, etc. So a lot of the technology grew through paintball. The same stuff that could be applied to airsoft with no problem, but it's like airsoft manufacturers are too proud to glance over at what paintball is doing, so they either reinvent the wheel (rarely), or just reproduce a v2 gearbox over and over.

So in that sense, paintball is much better. Manufacturers are improving their guns. New ideas and designs are coming out every few years. Paintball is continually innovating and evolving.

Airsoft is relatively stagnant.

This is a very good point, but also keep in mind the same thing with copying designs has happened in paintball, you have all sorts of clones of tippmans and spyders flooding the paintball market, and its because its a reliable design, many starter airsoft guns use a V2 gearbox and MOST are M4's, this is the same with paintball having mostly Tippmanns or spyders just starting to play.

i also see however that there is a large disparity between advancement. The thing that could truly make Airsoft More interesting would be a incorporation of paintball technology into airsoft. could you imagine first strike airsoft rounds? the range on AEG's already rocks but imagine a TM VSR-10 Shooting 425 with .43 gram First strike Pellets. could you imagine the possibilities of that, 300+yard Range, Full use of long range scopes/optics.

Or Possibly having a GBB with a pneumatic firing mechanism giving you a 1-2-3-4-5-full auto round firing function with the flip of a switch. Using a regulator and hi pressure air stored in the stock in a small tank like the milsigs.

adjustable regulators and boards to give insane rates of fire with hi pressure air. I feel that high pressure air is the future of airsoft and paintball. Very little firing inconsistencies, high discharge rate, easy to refill and can be compact.

HPA is also the PAST of airsoft it evolved in a different direction probably to maintain realism in the looks of the guns, yes the gear box ir relatively unchanged in 20 years but there isnt really much room for improvement on the disign of the gearbox and the improvements have been made by either aftermarket parts or v3 boxes and so on.
I do agree tha tthe hpa systems for airsoft wer awesome and id like to see them still being made (reminisses about the YE MP5's) but i dont think airsofters for the most part want to carry tanks on ytheir backs with remote lines running out of their guns so the new trend is going towards the GBBR's for even more realism trust me if i coud pic up a YE MP5SD6 id be all over it and people would all be like man thats awesome especially the newbies and all the oldschoolers would be like pft been there done that got an AEG never looked back.
I even almost picked up one of thse RAP4's back in the day the m4 one mag fed that you could swap the barrel and load the bb's into painball sized shells and have a gas/hpa powered "shell" ejecting m4 to use both for AS and PB but in the end decided to just stick with AEG's till the GBBR's got all the bugs worked out.
Some interesting info on "classic as" http://www.thefullwiki.org/Classic_airsoft
my all time fave the YE MP5's ( i think i alrdy posted this link) Airsoft: Gas YE-MP5 Underwater - Available in HD - YouTube
amd the i never caught on but could have prolly been quite awesome rap4 http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/rap...c-261_409.html
and as we see everything old becomes new again amd it may only be a matter of time befor we see "escort" type systems being produced again who knows, i know id buy one or ten lol

And 425fps with .43g bb's thats like 3.61 joules not too many folks wanna get hit with that and there are some snipers that do run 600fps and that is 410fps with .43's so thats not unheard of just not too many snipers are certified/trusted with lvl4 and not too many fields allow for the 200ft meds needed for that fps and to top it off even with the best of hopup systems maintaining a stable flight of such a light projectile at those levles is dificult even over 500fps on .20 like my gun (513fps on .20 or 350 fps on .43) is a lil toutchy to say the least 500-550 fps is about max you wanna go to with .20's to get a good stable flight and at those 500+ powers you baisicly run .36-.43 to lowwer velocities and create a more stable flight and carry more energy out to range to make sniping viable otherwise you may as well run a 400fps aeg with helacial gears and a sorbo pad youd be almost as quiet and still have roughly the same effective range as a 450fps bolt action firing the same .30 or .36 bb's i run .36-.40 with my 512fps on .20's and have an effective range of about 300-400feet depending on conditions like weather/ wind and line of sight 300 is mostly the max 400 is shooting at static targets it takes about 3-4 secconds for the bb to travel the 400ft so shotin at people at those ranges isnt a great idea by the time the shot gets there theis teeth are where their cheas was when you pulled the trigger not verry safe IMO

i'm saying lets push the design limits of these things! a 6 mm bb with fins and a rifled barrel could revolutionize the range and accuracy of airsoft as it did with paintball.

check the Rap 4 site closely in teh link i provided no "rifling" in the barrel i dont think but the fins on the rap 4 "not bb's" are tilted to give the spiraling effect, http://www.rap4.com/images/products/...airfin5001.jpg
next thing the did was release a hop up version of their airsot barrel then an adjustable hop up version because it is more effective then the finned projectile. it works well for PB cause well they cant really use hop up without breakin paint filled projectiles in their guns so the issues outweigh the benifates, they have tryed to impose a "hop up" like effect on painballs for years with different methods of gas flow and such but in the end it wasnt all that effective like hop up is to airsoft
i think teh one odd thing they did is what turns folks off is that their barrels are tapered from 8mm somethin down to 6.05ish

Is paintball better than airsoft?

Yes.

Never looked or conceived the idea of going back.

Why should I have to buy an aftermarket gear box shell and put a little bit of padding at the front of the shell where the piston hits it, just so I can run a stronger spring without fear of the piston or shell exploding on impact when I pull the trigger?
Why isn't there a little screw I can turn to alter the spring tension, so that I don't have to change the spring?
Why do I need to change my gears or reshim them when I buy my gun?
Why don't I have a board that lets me adjust the rate of fire/burst?
Why am I afraid that the gearbox will explode when I open it, and have to delicately put it all back together?

Some of these are little things, that you would hope proper quality control, and good materials would fix. We play a game where we accept and expect that we're spending several hundred dollars on a gun, that has incredibly poor internals.
We're scared to open our internals, because we're afraid we can't put them back together.
We make serious suggestions like "well if you're going to be playing a lot of indoor and outdoor games, you may as well just buy a second lower for your M4, because it's easier to just swap the lower, than open up your gearbox and swap an M90 spring with an M120".

We don't want this, but it's all that we're offered.

Paintball vs airsoft is like the PC vs apple (respectively) in the aspect of hardware.

Saying "there's three gears in your gearbox. You can't do much about needing to keep them aligned" is like saying "the Retina display is attached to your macbook. You can't 'just replace the display'". Stystema and ICS have had split gearboxes/quick swap cylinders for years now, where you don't need to go near the gears if you wanted to change the springs, and so far the Katana is the only thing coming close to having something similar. There's a handful of gearbox models that allow you to adjust the spring without opening the gearbox.

The autococker (<3 it) is a "complicated" mechanism. But people didn't sit around and say "well, it works, and there's not much you can do about it. If your cycle timing is off, just sit there for a few hours and get it working again". They went off and designed new mechanisms.

Edit: there's also a problem with marking. Seeing one of Jimski's posts has reminded me that there's still no fucking sticky peanut butter projectiles. Why do you people put up with this lack of sticky peanut butter?!

Not sure, But I think you, of all people I know, mean no.

Just sayin'.

there are actually 6mm paint balls but they only work in guns without hop up or they wind up busting in the gun, an ddont expect the "gucci" airsofters to let you shoot paint at their baby puke i mean multicam ;) and yes i agree the quick change spring option is one thing that airsoft needs to become standard, even the one where ther is just a cap at the rear of the gearbox would be fine, no need foir fancy two peice designs just a lil redisign is all that would be needed but if that is an important feature for you then just be sure to buy guns with that feature, to me tho it would be nice its not all that important, having a long ass m16 or even an m4 with a longish barrel just doesnt work for me in CQB anyhow so a seccond gun is almost a givin, i personnaly have never opened up a new gun to reshim or what have you and even my first JG m4 went for a long ass time befor the gearbox cracked in the cold.most guns dont need to be reshimed out of the box, of course the OCD types among us will tell you that they can shim it beter and they likely can but its not gonna make that huge of a difference on longevity as justr buying a higer end gun is gonna make, JG's at the time i got mine wer branded as being poorly shimmed and overgreased but mine worked fine outta the box and lasted years befor it busted fro mtoo much dry fire in the cold at 400fps. mofset to adjust rate of fire and burst settings and such are relatively new to airsoft just lkie lipo is and as more n more folks start to use lipo and more n more guns come with such cramped space that lipo is the only option more n more guns will start to come with mofset out of the box.
also keeping in mind comparing a Systema with a JG/TM/VFC or whatever other kind of AEG is also back to the Microsoft/Apple comparison obviously you are gonna get alot more for two g's then yer gonna get for three hundred bucks lol

What about the apex which works exactly like a hop up system except for it puts back spin on the ball at the end of the barrel and if using woodsball paint as opposed to tourny grade paint you will have little to no barrel breaks as tourny paint is much more brittle than woodsball paint

In fact the apex has been used by woodsball players for years they even sell it in a package including apex barrel and tip

also all those companies tying to use gas or the bolt to give the ball back spin they're research and products have been unfounded in fact on a fourm called tech pb there is a section called punk works where they test the legitimacy of said claims

Go check it out if you want it's quite interesting and I wish we had something like that on here

not sure if anyone mentioned this but there is also First strike rounds for paintball which put's a stabilizing spin on the paintball which have a bullet shape to them

Not 6mm paint bbs, sticky peanut butter! ;)
That was more a joke, anyway.

The point is that after 20 years, you'd think there would at least one competing gearbox design, or that companies would at least put some work into ironing things out and working on quality control.

I don't want to sound like I'm saying "boycott airsoft! Screw the cloning Chinese for their shotty (ha) QC on my gun! Let's get a petition started for airsoft manufacturers to develop something better!"
I'm just saying that the progression of airsoft is fairly non-existant, and this can be shown by it growing up alongside paintball, which is essentially the same thing, except that it uses gases to propel its heavier projectiles, instead of a motor to wind a piston.

If I were a parent, and I had two sons, and one day I walked in on the two of them drawing. One was drawing circles, and showed it to me all excited, saying "look what I drew!". He had coloured the circles in, but a lot of the time the circles weren't perfect circles, and sometimes the colours would stray outside the lines. Then I look over at the other, and he's still hunched over his drawing. I walk over and see that he's drawing a beautiful landscape, with vibrant colours and amazing detail.
I would turn to the first kid, and yell "YOU'RE 20 YEARS OLD. FFS. YOU'VE BEEN DRAWING CIRCLES SINCE YOU WERE 3. AT THE VERY LEAST, YOU COULD HAVE LEARNED TO COLOUR INSIDE THE LINES. LOOK AT YOUR BROTHER."
And then I would shame that first child, and make the second child my prize. When people asked how many children I had, I would proudly say "I have two children", and the first child would smile. But then I would point to the second child and continue "This boy right here is as good as two children!", and the first child would go be sad, and hang out with his group of friends that drew even crappier circles, and praised his circles with things like "well, you can either draw a circle, or a square, and a circle is more perfect than a square".

I ramble too much.

Lmao that was funny.
I see what u are sayin but alot the qc issues u speak of are not relevant when you buy a TM its just the clusterfuck of china clones and american rebranded china clones like echo1 that have the issues and echo1 are jg's bdought to the us opened up reshimed regrease baisicly given a good qc process then sold under the echo1 name at least that what the wer a few years back not sure if they have started manufatcuring but id imagine they still just rebrand china clone stuff. Buy a tm open it up and see they are almost always percectly shimmed and greassd and run around 280fps springs so they are reliable and last a long ass time. 400fps isnt needed and the original desing wasnt intended to run that high its clone stuff from china for the us and eu market whers faster and harder is considered the bemchmark for beter that causez reliability issues and such. If we all ran tms at 300fps ish the field would be equal and noone would have a need for 400fps but "all the other kids are doin it" type thinking means we all gotta have 400fps ish guns and means we all gotta deal with the reliability issues that come along with ghe high fps setups.
I had stock tm mp5 back in the day thag performed just as good as my stock jg m4 with much better externals on the tm. Just it couldnt keep up with all the 400fps guns that folks built up outta tm base guns. It out shot almost every clone tho as far as accuracy just lacked a lil in range do to the 100+fps difference

Yeah, TM is pretty much the top of the line, but only because of their quality control. But you shouldn't say "you have to spend twice as much on a TM than you would on that JG, AND you have to put up with having a plastic body". In 20 years, another company should have come along and established itself for the non-Japanese markets.

KSC has done this for gas blowback, with their KWA distribution in North America, but it hasn't really caught on with their KWA AEGs. At least not in Canada.

You're right, if we all ran TMs at their intended FPS, then all would be great with their gear. But we don't have the laws that Japan has in place, so we increase the velocity for better performance (not saying faster always equals better, but you know what I mean). If this were nearly any other industry, if the Japanese guns can't keep up then some other company would have come along to cater to the North American and EU markets.

In our case, no one has stepped up, AND it's expensive (and relatively rare, compared to clones) to get your hands on a TM, so most people are running around with a crappy V2 clone in their hand.

Agreed so we are all left with the option we almost all take buy a full metal clone for half the price of a tm and put the difference of cost toward reshiming beter pistons and gearsets better hop ups and such. Just the nature of the game for us i spose. Yes it would be great if TM would start makin full metal 350-400fps guns for export only (tho i think their laws forbid them from doing so) or have a factory in the us or in europe to make them but they have all the market they alrdy need so we are of little concern to them.
Plus there are a host of aftermarket metal bodies gearbox parts and all thjngs airsoft to cater to those who dont have such laws to obide by that they may be too late to even consider doing it cause folks are set on the buy it and rebuild it trend alrdy.
Lets keep in mind tho that the guns commin out of china are 10 times beter today quality wise then the wer 5-10 years ago. Companiez like JG and CYMA are as of late producing quite good clones with full metal bodies out of the box. There are others i just havsnt handled any of em to say one way or another how good or bad they are but the cyma mp5 i had back in the day was subpar compared to the mp5k ive been lookin at and the jg/echo1 m4 i just picked up has a much beter plastic body and much quieter gearbox then the first jg m4 (my first aeg) that i got in 2007.
So things (in the clone world) are getting alot beter with time as they refine tbeir manufacturing and qc processes and materials get beter.
Of course itll be a long ass time befor a tm or a clone will have the tech that goes into a sytema but it may happen one day maybe our grandkids will see it lmao.

Well, it's the nature of airsoft. Not necessarily the nature of the shoot-things-at-other-people game. ;)

On the topic of Systema clones, Brian made some good points along the lines of (but not exactly) how we as airsofters need to support things like the A&K PTW clone, in order to show manufacturers that we WANT them to get better.

Yes i read a bit about the ptw clones i thought someone was spose to bring em in but didnt see anything about them bein here yet. I actually thought there was more then ome company talkin about makin a PTW edit CTW is the other ptw clone thingy. Id definately buy one so long as they are at least as good as a regular aeg (hopefully beter) and not 2 grand lol.
Hopefully sub 800 bucks with 100% systema compatability so when/if somethin fails it can be replaced with some overly priced systema parts lol.

I use repalls only for practice into a blanket, but don't like to be hit by them in a game.

Reballs are suppose to be chrony a 260fps, but some players cheat by cranking up the velocity to 280 fps.

Unhonst players have been cranking there velocities up for years in paintball I've been bunker by a guy shooting at 400 FPS now that sucks

I've also been hit by a monster ball at 360 FPS from about 15 ft away doesn't mean I'm going to stop playing paintball

I've played against plenty of cheaters in both paintball and airsofters including guy's who just don't call there hit's or wipe

I love both paintball and airsoft there are cheaters in both but I will forever play them cause there are no other sports like them

Oh wow monster balls for all those who dont know

Ban Monster Ball from all fields - YouTube


Another +1 for airsoft .. BBs cant pop and leave all oil/paint in your bag of 500 paintballs with need to be cleaned before use

There really is nothing to a paintball gun; not that there needs to be. They have made some interesting advancements, but the basic idea has never really changed. Drop in a paintball, hit it with air.

Airsoft is anything but stagnant though. Open bolt systems, Systema PTWs, it's all very exciting, and getting better all the time. Granted the basic AEG design hasn't changed much, but then it's more like a Harley Davidson in that regard. There are mosfets, integrated optics systems, high torque motors, better engineered batteries, quick change spring designs, etc. you can put some pretty unbelievable upgrades into an airsoft gun to make it better; not to mention any gun nowadays worth owning comes built with higher tolerances and made out of high grade CNC'd materials.

Every airsoft company that's worth talking about is working on a way to replace the Tokyo Marui style mechbox, but realism is a key selling point so I think more R&D will go into GBB technology. Remember as well that many things have already been tried, and perhaps have flopped.

When I stated that airsoft gear was better I wasn't just referring to the guns, but I still haven't seen a paintball gun that does the job of, or looks or feels as cool to shoot as a Fight Club Custom PTW, or an RA-Tech custom open bolt GBBR. Paintball pistols aren't even worth mentioning in a comparison, and neither are sniper rifles, LMGs, etc. Airsoft will always win in the realism department. But where airsoft really shines, is in the usage of real steel gear and airsoft adapted gear. Of course you can apply these things to paintball, but it wouldn't cross over as smoothly.

Injury wise, well that's a hard sell. Paintballs are bigger and this hold more kinetic energy, but their surfaces and shock absorbency are also higher. I had a buddy who got a concussion through his paintball mask. I've also had friends who've had BBs stuck in their skin, and remain to this day.

Paintball fields often have that goopy shit all over the place, or it gets on your eyewear and smears, or it breaks in your gun, etc, etc, etc. I don't mind getting my gear dirty, muddy, covered in sticks, but I sure as hell don't want yellow paint on it.

I can see how people enjoy paintball, I've played it; a bunch actually. No tournament play or anything so involved, but I've seen the gear, the air tanks, and the paintball loading systems .....No thanks, I moved onto something with a ridiculously higher potential, and even now offers so much more.

Paintball I found to be linear, as it always had a one or few directions. So at its most basic it was like a lesser form with the same goals in mind. Like a pocket bike all the way up to a Ducati SS and everything in between. Airsoft on the other hand is all over the place. There are so many different styles and groups that a sport style is hard to nail down. Most airsofters don't get to experience wearing truly special forces level engineered gear, play at games where all the guns shoot between 200 - 300 feet plus, get hunted by guys with gen-3 plus night vision, have camouflage that'll hide you from someone who is almost standing on you, snipers who's guns are dead silent, etc, etc. to me, that is airsoft, and that is what I compare to paintball. Running around with your friends with a $300 gun, and whatever replica gear you could get your hands on is a bad example. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but the perspective is way off in comparison.

personally if I was to have to choose a sport to stay in I would stay with paintball it's my first love the smell of the paint and fresh cut grass the calm just before the game the ref yells go go go the sound of ten paintball gun firing all at the same time the rush to the snake the running down and bunkering of people and people running down and bunkering me the massive moves the speed the intensity and overall competitiveness of it it all being dirty and full of paint at the end of a hard tournament or practice the yelling and screaming of opposite teams positions the thought that goes into each move the hilarity of some of the bunker name (Dorito Huhuhuh and it even said doritos and had the skwiglly line on it on the bunker) just the pure awesomeness of winning a tournament and the feeling you and your brothers feel when you lose you laugh together you cry together and you all love the sport together (cause god knows even if you make it to the pros it ain't gonna pay you bills) maybe it's cause I've always said paintball was destined to be play of a speedball field but I've always felt out of place playing woodsball which is why I took up airsoft it feels more at home in the woods but paintball will always be my first love I can never give it up

BTW the polar star fusion engine is basically a paintball gun able to shoot BB's works the same way with a board, solenoid, air tank, and regulator I'd just like to see them incorporate and Low pressure regulator along with the high pressure regulator allows you to tune for efficiency or smoothness or even if they could get it to run with a Super low pressure regulator on the air tank so it could become even more efficient

as I said earlier I will always love both paintball and airsoft and will never stop playing either of them I just wish for airsoft to learn from paintball's mistakes and succeeds (cause if airsoft becomes mainstream then paintball won't be so looked down upon either)

Sorry about any spelling mistakes and lack of grammer it's to late to care LOL

Monster balls are custom made to have a long long shelf life and hit hard.

Hmm, it would be a nice .68 cal bbs for the M200.

+1 to this. Except the F1 thing. Its all about NASCAR bro. On a serious note though I chose airsoft more for the reason that pretty much all my buddies that were into guns airsofted. Easy choice if you ask me.

PAINTBALL
At my local paintball field, its $120 for a case of paint. Plus a $10 entry fee. So $130 for a day

AIRSOFT
At my local airsoft field, its $30 for a bag of bbs. Plus a $10 entry fee. The catch. A bag off bbs lasts me 3-4 weeks.

Conclusion. It costs $70 to play airsoft every weekend for a month. Compared to paintball's $130 a day. Idk about you but that alone was enough to make me all airsoft.

from personnal experience .38 special and .40 s&w simunition are like getting hit by paintball at 280 fps at 10 feet. Never been hit by rifle rounds.

At about 1$ a round it would get expensive quite fast...

and like others said... it's all about personnal preference... I don't see the point of going around on a track for hundreds of laps... it's boring...pointless and to controled IMO. bring it out in the sesert where there is no track, no pits, no controled environment from point a to point b now you are talking....

wait wait wait, you mean....turning to the RIGHT? and only SOME OF THE TIME?
A track that has both left and right turns, HA, yeah right, who would pay to watch that? LOL

actually.. nascars are set up to automagically turn into the lefts on an oval.. a driver actually counter steers the car out of the corner.

I remember when they brought the busch series to montreal.. the cars couldn't do the hairpin... they had to slow down so much to get the car to turn... it was rather hilarious.

As much as I love airsoft, and the realistic gear and tactics that comes with it, there's much to be loved about a good speedball tourney. Still airsoft overall I think is a better sport in most ways.

Wow, I've only read a few pages on this semi-old thread and I'm not surprised to read that most people on an airsoft forum prefer airsoft. :rolleyes:

Whoever said that the technology in paintball hasn't advanced like in airsoft has not really seen the evolution of that hobby. From smart hoppers, carbon-fibre compressed air systems, trigger board circuits, break-beam eyes, better paint manufactures, multi-bore barrel systems... probably a few more things that have been invented/introduced since I stopped playing a long time ago.

They are both similar yet different, I don't know why it's human nature for groups that share similar themes to claim dominance over the other... play both and then decide what's best for you, not necessarily me or others.

I totally agree, the main problem with airsoft IMO is the lack of manufacturers support for their products. The Guaranties provided by Chinese and Taiwanese companies are pretty much non existant. Some companies with divisions in America are trying though (Umarex, echo 1, KWA, etc.) but this doesnt mean jack for us in Canada. Furthermore is ofter easier to fix things yourself.

My point is that due to lack of OEM support, most ppl stay away from new and proprietary designs, slowing down innovation (Ares, I'm looking at you)

What pisses me off, however, is that most AEG technical innovations in the last 10 years have come from players, and not from manufacturers (i.e radiused shells, AOE, DSG, swiss cheesed pistons, R-hop/ G-hop, etc..)

Its mind boggling that AEGs dont come AOE corrected from the factory, even freaking upgrade parts such as Lonex drop in gearboxes dont, I mean how fucking difficult is it ? !

Airsoft consumers are gullible. They continue to purchase pot metal based airsoft guns. If manufacturer "A" offer a CNC'd M4 at $600, and manufacturer "B" offer a pot metal version at $590, the consumer will buy pot metal to save $10. That is reality.

Madbull pays hefty license fees to produce their rails, but ACM stuff out sell them at a slightly lower price.

In the paintball world, markers are mostly cnc milled billet. Pot metal would not sell well at all.

If Ares are so bad why do they continue to sell tons?? Because the airsoft consumer is gullible.

Miss my 2005 Angel, and Angel A1. Speed ball was for sure one of the greatest experiences I had.

They are both different sports in my opinion, to each their own.

I enjoyed both sports. My first Angel was $1600, lol. Box of paintball at the time for "no-name" was $50-60 for 2000 paintballs, and that was cheap! Anyways, don't know how paintball scene has changed after 2005-2006, but was quite expensive in comparison to now. Also at that time I don't think Airsoft was popular, and was quite low-key.

I love airsoft now, nothing like having a GBB put a smile to my face after each shot. I also enjoy that I don't need to have to clean up after all that fish-oil infused paintballs cover me too is a big plus. Also airsoft brings a lot more "realistical simulations" then paintball. Also seems to be less cheaters.

Images from google, but almost the same.

First

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/IMG_0115.jpg

Second
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/imgp3497.jpg/


Third
http://imageshack.us/a/img440/2356/i...1024185008.jpg

BioRage, Nice 05 Angel... looks like it never saw field time.

Still have my original single trigger Angel LED which has been hanging on the wall for years.

Ah, I wish it was mine, those are just google images. Don't know my old school photobucket account so not sure if I still have photos from there.

Maybe I'll do some research and see if I can find one for a collector gun, think they are under $200 now.. deflation ftw!

Is yours an I3?

That pretty much is the truth now, unfortunately. Except not even $590.

I remember "back in the day" (circa 2001) when a plastic TM AEG would run about $650 in Canada. People were willing to pay that.

Now people scoff at paying more than $400 for anything.

And its not just Canada, players everywhere seem to be after bargain basement pricing, quality be damned. And unfortunately, manufacturers are there to fill demand and turn a profit. They could just as easily be making CNC'd 6061-T6 guns, but they would turn into unsold inventory, so they don't.

lol, I had an Angel Stars and Stripes LED model that I picked up when all the Angel owners moved onto the LCD model. That thing could shoot ropes but when it started acting up it was difficult to fix.

I played in the first Skyball tournament at the then Skydome and our team reffed the second one. Those were good times, probably the golden age now for the hobby.

I've played paintball and it was fun, but I found it lacking. The guns are no where near as accurate, as far as i can tell it would cost a shitlload more to own, maintain and play. Even the better guns are nowhere near as realistic and it's far too messy. Also paintball leaves much larger welts on most people. airsoft only seems to leave (normally) mosquito sized "welts". When ppl who've played pball ask me what it feels like I say paintball is a punch and airsoft is a slap just as hard so it stings a bit more on impact but goes away quicker and leaves less of a mark. I honestly don't know why ppl play pball when there's airsoft!?

Mine was the old 1st gen LED even before the LCD versions. IR3 is beyond the LCD.

Back then, Revy's were the only loaders then the Halo came. With the Revy, chopping was a nightmare.

Biggest reason I have seen lately is the fact that paintball marks people while airsoft is honour based. Hard for wipers and cheats in paintball to hide a solid grouping of hits where the same play in airsoft you could deny and no proof exists.

But back to airsoft.

Zshot at the Shot Show in Vegas has announced the new 2014 Systema that is supposed to have fully billet machined upper and lower receivers by Knights Armament (KAC).

I really hope Wallace at Zshot did not lie again about this announcement, because it would be just heaven if it was true.

http://popularairsoft.com/news/airso...-legal-version

Seems true, however I might be totally in the wrong but I think the Pot Metal vs CNC'd aspect of it all is not advertised anywhere. What I mean is that you can't really tell on a manuf. or retailer site if it's one or the other, so people (I think) tend to overlook this "feature" when shopping and comparing.

Companies that use pot metal it and just call it alloy.
Companies that use billet alum will say cnc machined billet and for example the grade.

Pot metal has seam marks and are often painted because it can not be anodized.
Machined alum billet parts can be anodized and looks so much better.

The first pic below is pot metal shell, the second is billet machined.

I recently came to the dark side and love it, only thing I miss from paintball and havent had the experience so far with airsoft is ... walking off the field covered in welts and exhausted. Maybe im doing something wrong (I assume those comments are coming) just feel paintball is faster paced. That feeling is extremely satisfying.

Also miss actually marking players instead of having no proof for cheaters.

Now on to all the things I dont miss:
- paying three times the cost to play.
- fucken speedball players ... hate those clownz.
- unrealistic paintball guns.
- lone wolf style of play ... very little tactics or good team play.
- ridiculous commerical field prices.
- stinky stained gear.
- etc, etc, etc .....

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I love airsoft. If you shoot someone in paintball too many times, it would be ruled as over shooting. Besides paint is expensive so I like the one shot, one kill technique. I always go for the goggles.

In airsoft if the other player does not call out, just keep on shooting and target tender spots on their body. Who cares if they cheat, more fun for me. I never get mad, because it is just a game!

we play multiple rounds in a day, in paintball after the first round it would be impossible to determine old hit from new anyway. we play with a good group that calls their hits and anyone that doesn't, isn't invited back out anyway.

After 18 years of PB 10 years of competitive ball, I still love Paintball.

Last year I was convinced too try Airsoft for the first time from co-workers.
They told me Paintball Sucks bla bla bla.

So I tried Airsoft, Gibson School being my first outing. Let me just say, Ive played a lot of Paintball, In a lot of different scenarios. Nothing could have prepared me for the game change. Playing back for 8 years in Paintball, I was used too ripping ropes in all my firing lanes, with airsoft, I loved the more tactical feel I got. Its a different game all together for me.

Paintball I would rip off 900-1200 balls a round. With airsoft I only shot 500+/- bbs the entire day, And still had a Blast.

So I cant say one or the other is best, But at this point in my life Airsoft suites my needs in Fun warfare class best.

just my 2Cents

Try both, Choose what makes you feel better, Or play both.
If its a money issue, Airsoft has been cheaper by the wagon full for me.
If its finding people too play with, Check the local games and meet new players.

Airsoft sucks, Paintball is the sport to play! C'mon guys lets sling some paint

What's the #%$& is paintball? It sounds awful, like a war crime or something.

Paintballers are evil. They shoot unborn babies at each other!

So it's like a live action, dark comedy?

Is paintball better than chlamydia?

Errm I'm a speedball player to this day and I am not a clown I don't have a red nose or big shoes

I believe what you call speedballers is what I comonally refer to as a full retard and in paintball they come in all shapes and sizes just remember that cause it's a little insulting to be lumped in with a bunch of asshats do to ignorent statements and thoughtless comments just because of how I play

Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2

^ agreed. Play style does not reflect the character of a person.

Aj619, no offence intended. The clowns statement refers solely to the style of clothing. I fully respect the skill level of them and fearless nature about them, but I can't count the number of times I ran into someone in full speedball gear wiping like a midget porn star after a gangbang bukake scene. Sorry just not a big fan of the gear and attitude of the majority of players. But your are right there are asshats in every aspect of life.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is what I don't get. People claiming paintball is more expensive than airsoft. All of the real steel tactical/special forces gear, boits, night vision, etc, etc, etc, and all the things you wouldn't want to risk getting paint on. The only thing left is the gun. I'll agree that paintball markers where/are way overpriced in many cases, but a training weapon decked out in real steel gun parts, equipment, accessories, etc. No no, if paintball was more expensive for you than airsoft, you're not airsofting right. Lol. Anyways, with the lightweight and ergonomic nature of modern military gear and guns, you should be able to play airsoft at a much faster pace than paintball ever could. Paintball has one thing going for it, that is also its biggest downfall; the paint. Sure you can "see" your hits, but in airsoft you can more accurately hit your target. They may or may not call it, but you can make them pay, or oust them from the community as well by setting examples. Also, that never stopped paintballers from going, "that paint mark was already there", "you hit me, but it didn't break", "I got that from rubbing up against something with paint on it". Never played paintball as extensively, but I had many friends who did. Coming from paintball into airsoft was like going from watching an Down syndrome kid trying to play Punch Out on a broken NES, in black and white, to watching UFC live, front row.

Airsoft could never be played at the same speed as a speedball/Airball Iv'e been in matches that lasted 30 sec and have never seen a speedball game last more than 5 minuets

I refer you to

cereal killerz into - YouTube

And

The best PSP Paintball match of 2013. Dynasty vs Infamous at PSP Dallas - YouTube

No

I like my skirmish kinda fast actually
it's risky and you need everyone involved, gotta push through the defense etc

Even if that were so, airsoft guns are accurate, shoot further, more ergonomic, and are allowed higher FPS. On that alone, it makes the speed of paintball unable to match it. We don't generally play speedball in airsoft, but we have.

Unsubbing from this thread. The amount of uneducated and ignorant information is really of little usage now, just people's ego talking.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...thisisbait.png

Is this thread a complete trollbait? Sure looks like it from the aggressive tone and generalisations (from both sides) in this thread.

My personal opinion of paintball doesn't dictate its merit, as what you enjoy is up to you. We were discussing the capabilities if both in a speedball style environment. But two key points. For starters, paintball is generally nailed down into let's say a dozen common gameplay styles, mostly generated around a competative scrim or game. Airsoft on the other hand is 75% revolving around a loosely based military style, tactical game. The game in question is slowly morphing into more realism, or indepth style of gameplay. But airsoft is also commonly used in a thousand other mediums including roll-playing, reenactment, to a bunch of kids just running around shooting one another. I'm sure these things happen in paintball, but not to this degree. Paintball in a sense is more refined, perhaps due to its age. Except perhaps in regards to the whole, weekend warrior, birthday party, pay your twenty bucks and have fun once in awhile style, but airsoft has this as well. Secondly, anything done in one, can be done in the other. You can milsim in paintball, and you can speedball in airsoft, etc, etc, etc. The key difference is not how you utilize your game, but the technology available, and of course paint versus BBs.

My tone was never meant as aggressive, and my analogy was simply as a laugh. My personal opinion is that airsoft, although not as clean and organized, yet, has a much higher potential in all things. But once again, that's simply my opinion.

Back on topic, speedball. More commonly found in airsoft is military gear; strictly referring to the real deal here. Let's take Crye BDUs for example, you won't find a better set of combat based clothing anywhere. Lightweight, engineered joints, breathable, comfortable, etc. Now add in some Bates Zero Mass boots, or Speed Freaks, etc; lightweight, ergonomic footwear. But all this doesn't come down to gear, because you can wear all this in paintball as well. So maybe it's the players. Not really, the best airsoft and/or paintballers could easily transition into the other game type, as realistically at their core, they are the same premise; shoot other people, in a competitive setting. So it's not the people or the gear. Here's where the difference starts to appear, equipment. Things like vehicles, night vision, etc, are almost exclusively found in airsoft, and rarely in paintball. Something about getting paint on/in thousands of dollars worth of stuff isn't desirable. But I digress. This in no way means you could not use these things effectively in a paintball setting. So we have the ability to cross use people, gear, and equipment, effectively putting airsoft and paintball on even standing, especially given the ability to have all the same game types from one side available to the other.

What's the real difference then, other than commonly used gear and/or commonly played game styles? It's the guns. Airsoft guns are based off of real world counterparts, modern western military for the most. Based directly, and often one to one, of the best hand operated killing machines the world has to offer. Airsoft guns, at least the good ones, are 100% compatible with real accessories, sights, and functionality. Paintball is not, just on the fact they utilize gas, often need a hopper, and even small paint pellets are cumbersome. Even the best paintball guns cannot match the functionality of an airsoft gun in this manner. Lastly, if you want accuracy, precision, and function, airsoft is an obvious win. Sure you can pump up the FPS on your paintball gun, but it can be done to airsoft as well. So if your matching joules allowed in game, airsoft will always have an advantage. Take into account that the best military gear, which is the best gear ever in existence of anything, is engineered specifically to work with direct effect to today's modern armaments, which airsoft guns mimic. Airsoft is also evolving at a faster rate, as its technology appears to have fewer limits.

So, the guns, and everything they relate to are faster and more effective in airsoft, for the same job(s). However people, gear, and equipment are interchangeable for the most part. Airsoft = win. At least in the speedball round. I've also played speedball with both mediums.

As a direct speedball related advantage, and although you can see, hear, feel, airsoft BBs striking you or someone else, and it really comes down to the people you play with, paintball does, usually, leave a clear mark. So nearly eliminates confusion on hits in speedball, but I'd still prefer effectiveness and speed all around.

Paintball aint better than airsoft . Nor airsoft is better than paintball. Striptag is :)

I agree with ricochet on the fact the this is not an Egotistical conversation at all just a debate on whether airsoft could be played at the same speed or faster than paintball.


I have to disagree with you on the point that airsoft guns Having a higher FPS could attribute to a higher speed of play what gives paintball the ability to be played at a much higher speed is the fact I can complete my bunker movement even if I have been hit as paint doesn't always break on target.

However if I am hit while making a move in airsoft I'm out no completing the move and allowing the ref to check me. it's not just the speed at which the game ends I'm talking about the speed at which it is played at general you'll never see me run straight down the side of a field to bunker someone in airsoft however in paintball I'll do that all day long as I'm not dead unless I have paint on me.

See I find airsofters have to be more slow and deliberate in there movement as getting hit is an automatic out however with paintball getting hit ain't always the end

P.S I still love both games and wish to be a part of both communities for a very long time.

paintdick vs airhard

Obviously you've played speedball/paintball more than I have, not that I haven't played it a bunch. I have played speedball/airsoft a lot. We'd drop our rigs, pocket a ready mag, and do it. Often though we'd play full load out, for conditioning and what have you. I found the airsoft games would often go very quick. Some guys wouldn't even get off the starting point, or teams would be quickly over run. I found shoot-and-scoot quite a bit easier with my airsoft guns than with paintball markers.

Now, I see your side, being that paint in itself can change the game, but wouldn't that make the game go quicker if elimination from a strike was certain? No stoppages, no refereeing necessarily? Even if a player didn't call a hit, you could hit him multiple times, even through cover.

Put it this way airsoft is being used for reenactment groups , movies , TV and my buddies and myself use them with our army trucks .You don't see paint ball guns being used the same way !

Airsoft guns are more versatile, but that isn't what I'm asking. It doesn't really matter, speedball will be played to the style any individual chooses or has become accustomed. It's starting to look like I'm trying to slam paintballs legitimacy, and that'll just start a stupid debate.

I guess "in my opinion", if you were to take twelve players of equal standing, and put them in a six on six, speedball style game, going paintball versus airsoft, assuming everyone was honest, airsoft should have a clear advantage. Precision/accuracy, ergonomics/functionality should win. This purely based off of my experiences.

Let's just take friendly poll instead. Situation above, same skill levels, same gear, same everything, and of course honest players. Would you take a high end, properly tuned tournament paintball gun, or a fully modified airsoft training weapon? Both would be tuned to appropriately limits.

The only advantage I see with paintball is when you're tagged, its often more obvious other than the rare cases of the paintball bouncing. Because it leaves a colored mark. So you can weed out cheats.

This leads to the downside to airsoft, which is BBs can ricochet off walls and other surfaces, which hits you. So sometimes you are unaware if you are legit hit or from a ricochet. So you might opt to surrender yourself if you are honest, even though the guy on the other side probably technically didnt tag you from direct hit.

What do law enforcement and military train with?

Neither


Simunition