G&p m14 dmr
 

I've got the itch on to get something to augment what i have already in the way of field toys - a DMR to sit back in the weeds, take it easy, and still enjoy the field for the first part of this season (I have no choice on that, for medical reasons).

My first thought/instinct was to get an additional 18.5" M16 upper for my current ICS M4 and DMR that out, within reason - but just the upper alone is near the cost of a KA M4 at present - I'm kind of balking at that, at the moment.

However - the M14 has always appealed to me - even before airsoft entered into my awareness. The G&P M14 DMR can be found for reasonable nick at a certain retailer at present - however, to commit to it, means also to committing to buying a few more mags with it, and possibly a mechbox downgrade to keep it field legal and potentially to keep the mechbox from committing ritualized Seppuku in short order - so not so inexpensive in the end.

My question - I haven't seen all that much in the way of reviews of this specific G&P M14 DMR, beyond a Jerek4 boobtube review (and i know the rep of THAT Cat..). I understand that G&P has a generally good rep for it's M4 models - I don't know about anything else in the way of their models. Anyone here, with practical ownership experience with this one, able to give an opinion on it, positive or negative before i dump a wad of cash on one?

Danke.

Well, I guess it is just too bad for me if it turns out to be a stinker.

I've now got one more nail-driver to play with for this summer, for better or for worse.

well if it is TM compatible you can get those things rigged up to be nail drivers... I love my TM m14... erm XM21.

Fully TM compatible - may be a bit of a change/differentiation with the G&P motor, but otherwise, basically a TM clone in the internals as i understand it.

I did do some further research on it - it doesn't sound like one of G&P stellar achievements, but judicious use of aftermarket components will make things right if things go wrong. The basic gun sounds solid (to me, anyway).

Aside from the gawd awful shaded, not quite olive-drab ABS furniture (which is apparently darn close to the Marine Corps Real-Deal in photos, so what do i know), i'm sure that this thing will grow on me.

I would love to see some pics if you can get some up. I'm looking at an spr set up my self...

I had mine in my own hands for a grand total of one day before i sent it off to a shop gun-doc to change out the spring to something that won't have me hated in the safe zone, post-game, so i can't really give you any photo's of mine - anyway, my photo's always suck anyway, so that's kind of a blessing.

The G&P M14 DMR is based upon G&P's own body kit it made available to refit TM compatible M14's into a DMR chassis - I don't know whether it was a case of G&P not selling enough of the kits, and needing to do something with a surplus amount of kits - or just G&P saying, 'hey, mebbie we can just market a complete rifle too!'.

In any case, it uses the G&P kit furniture, with an in-house G&P manufactured rifle filling it out.

Photo's are pulled off the web - not mine.

http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop...8769568201.jpg

The kit turns a TM compatible M14 into this:

http://www.gp-web.com/en/photo/gp731_copy1.jpg

http://www.gp-web.com/en/photo/gp731a_copy1.jpg

As the G&P comes in the box, equipped with a pretty decent included 3-9x40 Telescopic scope, and upper fore-stock rails.

I am working on McGyvering up a front disconnectable sling-mount adapter fitting for a Harris bi-pod. One is available commercially, but i like playing with my metal working tools, and have time on my side to do so.

http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop...5906316771.jpg

September 2007 pre-release hypeage ASC thread - http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=44738

M14 dmr
 

Get yourself a TM M14 or a clone and buy the kit. Easy to install and then you can flip it back to regular any time you like. I have the kit, but I prefer the King arms EBR I installed on my TM instead.
I mentioned that I have the kit for sale if you ever change your mind.

Mu buddy just received one (dmr) today. I haven't have a chance to check it out yet but I own a G&P MK14 Mod 1 (EBR). It is an awesome gun. The range, with a lil' treak, is incredible.
The G&P DMR my buddy bought from 1 of the retailer in Canada is, in my opinion, pretty well priced. It's cheaper than if u buy a M14 and then buy the stock to do the mod. The internal of the G&P is pretty good already so there isn't much u need to do except maybe a TB and better hop up rubber.

It's nice when u can nail people so far away that they either dun see u or their gun just can't reach u ;)

This was my thought process also, when i saw it on sale (likely at the same dealer - I drove in, just to buy the last one in stock.) I'm too darn cheap to go and buy a TM M14 AND the kit - although if i found a wood stock at a later date in good nick used, i certainly wouldn't pass it up. It would be nice to diversify my parts available, in case a Vietnam themed game came up that i wanted to attend.

I'll agree, the M14 DMR model ABS stock is an acquired taste - but i do have strange tastes already, so it's all good.

yeah M14 wood stocks are hard to come by. I would like one since Xm21's were with wood stocks too!

NOT an auspicious start for this G&P M14. I was to pick up the M14 from the gundoc/local retailer this afternoon, after a spring-change to a more sane M95, due to personal concerns of safety and reliability at 430-450 fps, of the CDN import modified version spring that was inside - and the gearbox wasn't even up to the task of the M95 spring. The sector gear spun off of it's axle, fourth test shot in at ~366 fps.

Oh well, shiite happens i guess. At least it broke in the hands of a retailer that is affiliated with the business, that the rifle was purchased from - so warranty work should be fully covered. He's going to handle the direct communications himself, to get the warranty work handled - he's not too happy that it would break literally out of the box like that with a down-graded spring, while in his hands. I never even got to fire it yet - just fondled it for a 1/2 hr, before i took it in for the spring change.

Hmm, M14 wood stock are not hard to come buy at all. :confused: You can buy a real one and modding it to fit. Shouldn't be too hard.

well one thats already made to fit lol... shoulda specified that. I think it takes a lot of time to modify those stocks and I have neither time nor patience to do it lol... not even the tools or the expertise really. hmmm might as well start a new hobby I guess when I get sent to the middle of nowheresville since I dont think I will be airsofting for a while after May or so.

HackD, this is normal with G&P mechboxes, the gears are crap. Don't dispair though.. You can just pop better gears in it. The rest of the gun should be quite solid.

Is this your first G&P?

Yep, my first G&P. I kind of expected that the gears used were sub-par after doing some reading (post-purchase) - but i didn't expect that I would have issues (or rather, the gun-doc would) quite this soon. All things considered, I guess that it's better to happen now while in 'warranty', than in the field.

He (the gun-doc) mentioned that he'd try to get a set of SHS gears for it as a warranty resolution - he pulled another G&P gear out of his toolbox with the very same issue, but it was out of an M4 that at least saw some use out of it, before it failed.

Expect it. The only time I've snapped G&P gears is right away on first use of the given set (I've done it multiple times). Didn't require strong springs or any constant usage. Just right away in the first minute or two.

Don't bother with G&P replacement gears. The SHS are actually far superior and aside from SiegeTek they're pretty much as good as you can do.

Also I just want to re-stress that you shouldn't get discouraged by this, the SHS gears will rock your socks and the rest of this gun will be solid. Every G&P I've dealt with has always had a bit of sketchyness in the gear and/or piston department, but those two parts are easy to replace very inexpensively (for example the SHS gearset will run you 30 bucks and pretty much never break unless you're doing something crazy or incorrect).

I guess i am the lucky one. My M4s r still running stock G&P gear sets (400ish fps) and so is my MK14 (420ish).

My beef with G&P is that because of the gear issues it's not that great.

Truth be told I own a G&P and it's kick ass but for a lot of newbies I don't tend to recommend G&P for the reason alone that you need to go into your gearbox and switch out the gears pretty much right away or they'll shear off either at the axles or the teeth. For such a high quality gun you'd expect a lot better.... Hell I'm running Element torque gears in my G&P ATM and they're far superior to the stock G&P gears.

As far as SHS goes, I've been hearing a lot of good about them lately, before I passed them off as a "me too" ACM company that made low quality airsoft stuff (eg. Dream Army, 5KU, Supershooter, AGM, etc.). I might have to try them in the future if my gears ever break. If I don't decide to make the leap and get a SiegeTek set.

I'm definitely not discouraged by this, disappointed perhaps - for the same reason that L473ncy has outlined.

I recognize that with these airsoft replicas, that a certain amount of tinkering/tuning/upgrading is necessary maintenance throughout the lifespan of the gun in question - whether it be with the cheapest, or the most expensive. The issue i'm disappointed with is that G&P is what i'd consider a premium brand, and yet, the more i look into the overall reliability issues, both MaciekA and L473ncy are correct - they are definitely using sub-par components with the potential to cripple the gun, from the very first use. Unacceptable.

Simply a lesson learned - and it is not going to prevent me from enjoying this M14 - at least once i have got the mechanical bugs exterminated. The overall rifle is of a good quality and should last a good long time, once it is fully sorted to my satisfaction.

Better having a gun with better externals (metal body) and ok internals than the opposite IMO. Always easier fixing the internals.

They do say you are not buying G&P for internals... you are buying it for the sweetass externals. That said, their specs on some products are kind of off.

Completely agree with the posters above. I can't think of any AEG that has stock gears I'm interested in. Every gearbox in my collection has been gutted to at least some degree, and often the gears are the first to go. G&P could just throw a set of SHS gears in there, throw in a sorbo pad to correct AoE and instantly have one of the most desirable AEGs on the market. As it stands they come with a tremendous amount of baggage, especially for people who are afraid of gearboxes.

Crazy overlap alert:

Supershooter gears are often re-branded SHS, Dream Army motors are often rebranded SHS motors. Most if not all of the King Arms gearsets on the market are straight up SHS gears with a different logo stamped on them. The high torque SHS motors are some of the most oft-recommended I've seen for high fps setups, so between that and positive experiences with the gears they must be doing something right.

By the way the 13:1 SHS gears have been going through bad batches lately, if you have calipers and an airsoftmechanics account you can go look up the bevel tooth sizes to check if you have one of the bad batches. Apparently SHS has been made aware of the issue...

M14 dmr
 

Thats the reason I bought the kit instead of the whole gun. I have TM m14's and turned one into the DMR. The DMR after a while bored me so the kit has got to go. But I have to say that yes the G&P externals are incredible. I bought the G&P EBR kit for my one of TM's and man is it ever rocksolid and just looks gorgeous, heavy but gorgeous.

Update on the broken gun issue, in the retailer resolution section.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...36#post1636536


In short, Frank at TA isn't interested in doing anything in this situation.

Boo on TA. My future business will be going elsewhere, definitely.

I might have the M14 up and operational by this weekend - my usual Hamilton retailer is going to try to step up to the plate, and rob another perfectly good working gun of the parts necessary to have me playing on Saturday, if he can.

these guns are sold no warranty.. and with the expectation that the "pretend" gears that are installed in the factory would be replaced right away.

you got what you paid for.. yet you seem to expect to get more than you are entitled to.

this is an issue of expectations out of line with reality.

anyone who knows about these guns would tell you ( and have) that the gears are crap and need replacing out of the box

That may be so, and it will end up on me, that the gears (and anything else in the rifle internals) will need inspection and replacement as is necessary.

As for get what i paid for, excuse me? Do you consider $454.99 chump-change, which was a 30% 'fire-sale' price decrease on TA's original MSRP? Close to 5 large, and i got what i paid for, a steaming pile of poop enclosed in a pretty box? The Hell that my expectations were out of lines of reality. I expect a gun out of the box that at least makes it through a game or two - like everything else that i've bought so far, and in many cases for much less money involved.

I draw your attention to TA's OWN advertising on this site, in relation to the G&P line-up.

You spent money on something that you KNEW would have this issue, and you were repeatedly told that this was something common and expected. And yet you expect it to work outside of these known issues and limitations just because you paid $500? Sounds like you need to change your expectations and to amend your shopping skills...

If only you'd direct your ire at what is actually the problem, which is G&Ps quality assurance and manufacturing standards, rather than the store where you bought it from... That might actually get you somewhere within the realms of what is "reasonable".

welcome to the reality of airsoft in canada!

take it to a gundoc, fix/upgrade the insides... enjoy your new toy.

$500 bucks is a cheap gun.. G&P have known crap internals, known for failure out of the box.. The fact that you did not conclude due diligence before plunking down your coin is no one's fault but yours.

add to this the fact that the gears failed after the gearbox was opened ... voiding any possible warranty ( if there had been one ) I believe your ire is misdirected.

what you should have done is asked your gun DR to swap out those crap gears while he had the box open.

You are entitled to your opinion.. and you can air it publicly if you like.. but really it's not TA that is coming off looking bad here.

G&P guns have always been having issues, a couple guys who went to a game a while back bought two G&P m4A1 from TA and they didn't work right away.

the guns shipped into canada might have this issue due to the stronger spring they have in it. I am not too sure, but this is what I'm guessing because in Hong Kong people seem to be doing fine with their G&Ps.

however seriously, stop making a fuss about it. its only another 30-40 bucks for a new gear set depending what you get obviously. not that hard to fix your problem?

Hence why many people tend to change parts that are known to be a liability for their guns with better after market parts.

An example was that i have had extremely bad experiences with KA pistons. hence when i bought a KA M4A1, i also bought a Prometheus piston to be installed into my gun because i have not had a single issue with a prometheus piston EVER

PROBLEM SOLVED!!

So let me get this straight:

Gun bought. Spring bought.
Gun opened. Spring swapped.
Gun Fires 4 Times. Gun Fails.
How is this TA's Fault?

I read in the RRS thread that your gun doc claims the gun failed long before it hit his bench: And yet he didn't notice any signs of failure with the gun open, and the gun functioned (4 times) after he closed the box. Sounds like the gun failed on his bench, making it the gun doctor's problem. Not TA's. Which is, in turn, your problem, because you have to buy new gears.

Moreover, it just seems like you saw the other outspoken complainees who wrote great big "OMG, TORONTO AIRSOFT SCREWED ME BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO ANY RESEARCH" threads and got free stuff quickly from TA bending over in response to these whiners, and decided to cut right to the chase and try and get the same easy response/free product.

Frank should just make a thread for people to write what gifts they'd like, and end these giant posts.

Aight.. i can see this is turning into a ASC style pile-on thread.

Too bad you can't see that you're wrong...

That is of your opinion, based upon a 3rd party non-involved judgement.

I have an opinion that is different from yours. I am entitled to it, as an (ex-) customer with a broken gun basically out of the box after being downgraded, and out additional $$ as a result.

Yes, the $$ value of the parts needed is not all that high compared to the cost of the rifle - but as a retailer, perhaps that $30.00 or so would be money well spent for the retention of return customers. As a G&P retailer (and the Canadian representative, as they claim), it is of TA's prerogative to go back to them, for compensation on defective product experienced by a customer. If they can't do so, or can't work a deal to that end with G&P - then perhaps they shouldn't be carrying the G&P line, as their representatives.

Yes, i'm going to end up spending the $$ to get a reliable, serviceable rifle out of the deal - but it has left a sour taste in my mouth, and also in the mouth of the Hamilton retailer, to be told nothing can be done on TA's end.

I'll leave it at that. Say what you wish, as you wish from here on out. That is entirely, wholly your prerogative to do so.

The bottom line is, the (again) quoted line from TA is just a bunch of marketing hooey for us (pre-purchase) ignorant masses, apparently. If they aren't prepared to back the below statement up, then it shouldn't have been stated. This is of my opinion.

I'm done here with defending my position, my opinion, and justifying my reaction to the situation. You are, however, welcome to continue to have at it, as you (and others) do so wish.

Anybody buying ANY airsoft gun regardless the cost/quality is a fool to expect it to be perfect. I understand it's a pain in the ass for this to happen right away but it's bound to happen eventually with any gun, in 4 shots or 4 million shots theres going to be a problem, even $3000 systema PTWs have problems and and parts replaced.

WOW
 

Wow guys! Everyone take a deep breath. Try and stay nice to each other and be constructive not destructive with the posts. It helps no one to start flaming each other.

This is taken directly from their warranty page, found here. There's more to it if you follow the link. I only included the first part.

I'd draw your attention to the bolded section. By opening the gun to change the spring you voided any warranty that you would otherwise have had. It sucks that your gun doesn't work, but TA no longer has an obligation to fix it.

OP, you bought a gun and a downgrade spring and prior to purchasing you full well knew it was going to shoot hot. You drove all the way in from Hamilton to buy it, knowing it needed to be downgraded, without calling ahead to ask to have them install the m95 spring for you. Did you call to confirm it was in stock or ask to reserve one?

Instead you bought a known hot gun, took it home and then had it opened by someone who you claim is a gun doc. Then you have the never to blame Frank for a gun that broke post downgrading? Regardless if the gun doc is a good gun doc or not, how can Frank warranty a mechbox that had been opened and tinkered with?

Had you test fired it with the original setup when it broke, then I could see your side of things.

Chalk it up to your learning curve in buying airsoft. Life throws road bumps at you all the time. Learn to climb over or go around them. Being stuck behind one gets you no where.

HACKD I feel your pain for having a nice AEG DOA on you trust me it wont be the first or last, the only thing you can do is chalk this up as a learning experience you really can't blame Frank at TA as he is only the middle guy. the process of warranty from G&P has fucked so many people that if I were to piss and moan about every G&P internal that broke DOA from G&P guns I've bought over the years I would be a very rich man. The G&P internals particularly the gears are known issue, everything else on the gun is a beauty but that small gears and shimming issue seem to be the only one shared by many G&P aeg owners and equally dispised by all.
G&P as a brand is a reputable brand, certainly much better and considered to be the top 5 in terms of AEG products, one can only wonder why they still have not gotten around to fix teh same issue that has been plaguing their entire AEG line for the better half of a decade. if you would have done your research you would have anticipate the gear issue, and you would have probably have a solution to it being that the spring that came with the gun is a far stronger spring than stock. Like I and a few others have said chalk this up as a learning experience and move on as far as TA responsibility? well the next time you should have just waited and let them opened it up that way there are no confusionas to who is responsible for what. I have a M249SF that is still at their showroom to be downgraded before I pick it up.

I think everyone's beef with G&P for the better half of a decade is their shitty gears and shim job. Top notch external shitty internals why??? no one here except G&P knows maybe the gear set maker they use give them a nice head or something who knows?

Next time go VFC. On my third gun with them not a single issue. On the other hand I feel your frustration 500$ and changing things out sucks. Regardless of what people post you shouldn't have too do this.

VFC have had their issues as well, for a while there they use impact drivers to tightend their hop up resulting in broken hop and other issues too fortunately their QC has made vast improvement. Like I state before in some other thread companies like TM, KA and others have their growing pain and unfortunately some companies have grown too big to notice the little things, as for the frustration of needing to swap things out after spending $500 to make it shoot as it should well same can be said with PTW why do I have to spend extra to make it shoot better or pay for the motor mods or risk the motor failing on a $1800 gun?, however consider that G&P have to be upgraded with a stronger out of regular speced spring to make it import legal the OP should have just let the original importer do the spring swap on site instead of his local affiliate. That way there are no confusion as to who is responsible for what and anygun you purchased especially in person you should test fire it make sure there are no issues that way any issue can be dealt with on site.

Dude seriously all in all, if you don't like TA then don't go there again no one is stopping you, no need to make a big fuss out of it, your gun could be the one in a million that was bound to break or something.

you don't have to make it like they committed a crime or something lol

Would you buy a car before test driving it? No.

This isn't always the case for Airsoft guns if you buy them online but you actually went into the retail store to purchase it, you had the option of test firing it there so if the AEG really was D.O.A. Toronto Airsoft could have simply replaced the gun for you or refunded you your money. Nobody in the shop will stop you from emptying off a hicaps worth of BBs into the store range.

Even if you didn't test fire the gun at the store I imagine most folks would have that first on their list when they get home ... collectors are excluded as I know some fellas will buy a gun and let it collect dust in the box for months before setting it up on a mantle somewhere.

That being said you took it straight to a gun doctor to crack open (did they test fire it there to verify it was working before diving in?) and if the gun doc was experienced enough he/she would have realised the problem immediately and recommended a gear replacement. You mention this retailer is affiliated with Toronto Airsoft so I would imagine they'd know the warranty was void immediately the gun was opened and should have told you.

$500 for Airsoft is hardly considered much, being that the prices here are inflated in the first place your gun probably only cost $350 overseas. I paid $800 for a TM about 7 years ago and those ran for $250 overseas.

ASC isn't out to get you most of the guys here already said a set of SHS gears and you can get out to a game and have a good time.

Yes, you are correct, on both counts, In hind-sight i should have had them downgrade the spring, on-site, if this were a possibility.

However, i did have a few hindrances to doing this - I had no form of payment to 'reserve' a gun over the phone - if i were them, i wouldn't do anything unless there was a deposit on the gun in question - particularly with one in short supply that if i didn't buy, certainly someone else would in very short order. I did phone them ahead of time, and expressed concern about the 430fps issue - I did indicate that i wanted a downgraded spring (one of two additional things i asked about, other than gun availability, before i made the trip into Toronto) - there was no offer made to do a spring change on-site, on the phone. When i did arrive, I waited 1/2 hr before i had my turn at the counter - it was fairly obvious that it was a busy store-front, both at the counter, and in the back-room repair area. I don't think that it was a viable option to have the spring changed out on-site, right there and then. The offer was not made either, even though we spent extra time going over the appropriate downgrade spring options, as well as my reasons for wanting to get it downgraded.

Getting into Toronto for this the first go-around, was an adventure in itself - I am not really all that mobile for long trips due to temporary medical issues, and should really have done the trip via wheelchair van, not my car - I'll admit that this played into my decision to take the gun and spring and get back home to have the spring change done locally, with no additional pressuring of or offer by TA to do a spring change and pick-up on a later date. This, i will admit fault on, also.

I would certainly agree, that things could have been handled better - from both ends. I will also agree that my irritability has been heightened by being told that TA will assume no responsibility on a gun that broke on a spring, that should be mechanically safe for pretty much any other manufacturer's mechbox, coming out of the box new. Mechbox's aren't a black Art - I know my way around Ver. 2/3's pretty well, but the Ver. 7 being virgin territory, i decided to take it to someone else who did have plenty of experience with them.

As for the other posters pointing out that the warranty has been invalidated by the mechbox being opened up - well, again, this wouldn't be an issue really, if the mechbox components had been sound to begin with. It was only based upon the preliminary info that i'd read on G&P mechbox's breaking at 430fps+, that i decided to go with the spring change, concurrent to getting the rifle - it was meant to be a pro-active, trouble avoiding measure to make sure that any warranty available wouldn't be needed in the first place. I hadn't needed one with my ICS, or KJW, or my used 8 year old TM MP5. I guess that i got complacent.

The bottom line for me, basically, is that if the mechbox broke on an M95/365fps spring, it certainly would have grenaded on a M120(?)/430fps spring - it's a design fault issue at work here - so the issue of a warranty is kind of superfluous.. the mechbox/sector gear was fooked, whatever i did. As a consequence, i've been left holding the $500.00 bag, not having done anything that would explain a broken sector gear (except for having the gearbox cracked open as a preventative measure to preclude grenading a mechbox with an overly-powerful spring) - with no aid/assistance from TA, or G&P. This is what is souring my milk. Rightly, or wrongly on my part - Frank/TA is the name that sticks in my mind, when it comes to more money needed to be spent immediately, by his rather tepid response to the Hamilton retailer that went to bat for me on this issue.

Perhaps i allowed emotion to feed into my complaint in the RR section. I apologize for that. I don't get pissed easily, but when i do... i don't screw around with letting my feelings be known on any given issue.

As others have already said, Live and Learn. I just could have done without the attendant aggravation at this time.

I understand your frustration I've experienced it myself with the gen 1 and 2 PTW that failed after less than a mag fresh out of the box if I had to do it all over again i would have test fired it at the place where I bought it from that way any issue or any defective parts can be remedied on the spot

Warranties for Airsoft have traditionally been applicable in their country of origin. Historically retailers have tried their best to extend the range of that warranty, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers told them they were SOL because it was sold in Canada and such, or because it was modified for export, or whatever other reason they choose to provide.

Historically it was TM that had the best out of the box reputation(Read: Japanese built); at the other end of that spectrum was Classic Army who pretty much used their customer base to component test their initial production lines until they got it right to some degree on version 6.2. A true slow motion train wreck.

Regardless of who what where don't ever fool yourself in thinking North America is the original intended target market for Airsoft. There are many other countries and continents that don't have such a pile of bullshit to sell model toy guns to contend with. Honestly I think retailers make it look too easy or accomodating when realistically not much has changed since the 90's; I can't imagine what they sometimes deal with. Props to Ken/007 for holding his breath the longest.

I think the message here is while shopping around do some asking around (ironically the basis of this dboard) before pulling the trigger on a purchase and before ripping someone else a new one because feelings are hurt; in consiceration of the replies here are first hand advice/experiences - free of charge.

Ironically, that was or appears to have been the intention of this thread. But an impulse purchase is an impulse purchase which can turn out the way this one did. Hamilton to Toronto is a long impulse buy!

Instead of waiting for opinions by the next day the m14 was already picked up, fondled, and then sent off to an unknown gundoc.

To summarize what everyone is saying, G&P gear failures are the biggest open secret in airsoft and you can't plead ignorance when making your case about the gear failure. In theory your advantage here is that Toronto Airsoft can also not hide behind ignorance, since this issue is typical of G&P mechboxes.

My advice is to do what I did.

Take the broken gear set to Toronto Airsoft in person and state your case. Say that you would like to RMA the gears through G&P and get some SHS ones as a free replacement if possible.

Be as polite as you can possibly be. Remember, both you and Frank are in this boat together -- it's not like he can personally fly to G&P's factory and tell them to stop doping their metallurgy with brittle dirt. The Canada-upgraded rifle inventory is bought at great business risk, at a higher cost. You chose to then shoulder this cost.

These are absolutely fine rifles, TM spec, fantastic externals, etc. But the gears are poop. I know this, you know this, Frank knows this. We all took this risk together. You can get through this, I promise, you just need to get over the hump of what is essentially a tiff over 30 dollars worth of gears. It won't be solved with debating with people here -- so I'd advise you to ignore the heartbreak of people here blaming the you and piling on and so on. Your post in the resolution forum will go much further.

You will be VERY happy with this rifle once you replace the gears.

My contact at the Hamilton retailer just let me know that he's got a complete set of Guarder gears coming in for the mechbox. It wasn't just the sector gear that spun off of it's axle - teeth sheared completely off one of the gears, and partially off of the other two. Literally, a mechbox implosion - a junkbox, if you will.

Won't be able to have it for this weekend - but at least it'll be good to go for the next game.

Anyone remember Greylocks? He went down to AMC in Pacific Mall from Ottawa with the flu to purchase an 'upgraded' AMC TM MP5 - surprise! It didn't work for shit when he got to the field in Kingston. True story.

Just got the rifle back today, after a parts-ordering delay. Guarder gear-set installed, and in assembling and testing the rifle, the piston assembly was also found to be semi-fubar (rough-scuffing by head) so that was changed out also. Now shooting ~370-380fps as per where i wanted it to be at, on an 11.1v lipo. Yay.

Huge kudo's go out to Black Widow in Hamilton, for fixing this mess that TA had originally sold to me - he charged me no labor to fix it - he insisted on that - as partial compensation on a raw deal, that he really had no part in, to begin with. I guess being a regular customer has it's benefits.

I m running a g&p m14 dmr, 450 semi lock, i m now thinking about changing the gear!!!!

Bong

Many many G&Ps sold worldwide have this problem. Go watch Maekiii (in Finland) or SHWELL11 (Florida) on YouTube -- both of these guys have seen many G&P rifles shatter their gears into little pieces. Ask any G&P owner on ASM. Ask many of the G&P owners on this forum. Ask Trev, whose G&P gears broke the night before I saw you at his last game. Ask me, who has ripped a full metal rack off a full metal G&P piston, broke a G&P gear set 3 times, and destroyed 2 G&P pinion gears (also mush). The net is soaked with G&P failure stories.

TA physically cannot improve this product themselves out of the box without (in this pricing environment) losing money and can really only sell what they got from G&P. Shame on the manufacturer, but also accept that you dropped the ball -- at least a little bit -- on research. If I had encountered your thread just a little sooner I would have peppered it with broken gear stories before you had added it to your cart. Hopefully in future purchases you'll wait a little longer, because airsoft is a caveat emptor minefield.

Any G&P AEG owner can and probably will tell you that they are great guns once you replaced the problematic spur gears, there are literally thousands of complaint about this on the web, this is not new unfortunately G&P has never made any changes or willingness to tackle the issue.

See post #48 above - i do accept some responsibility on this overall situation.

Once bitten, twice shy, lesson learned. I've got it back in my greasy little mitts, and all is right in my little world again. I'll be sure to more properly do my homework before jumping in with two feet on product that may or may not be potentially defective, coming out of the box.

I can stop griping about it, and hopefully start enjoying it now.

Oh well, i've only got my sights (pun) lined up on one more, for my future arsenal - and i ain't seen too much in the way of bad coming up on Real Sword :D