Dart wants a new toy.
 

Hey guys,

So with the sale of my AK47 I am on the hunt for something new and great.

I am looking for an AEG as one GBBR is enough for me. I also want something that can cover multi conflict. IE a Sten was used in ww2, korea, and all the way up into vietnam. What ever I get I want to be able to do a full kit, so the proper side arm will be nice to be able to acquire.

So far I have it narrowed down to a AGM sten *dunno about that AGM part* a Ares PPSH-41, a A&K m60, a BAR *supply seems to be an issue with these*, a Garand *again supply but not impossible and yes I know this is a GBBR...* mp40 *these were used early early in vietnam and korea... plus of course WW2*. I do not want a sniper rifle as I already have a VSR money pit. So an assault or support weapon would be ideal.

AGM sten seems to be pretty un upgradeable from what I can tell. It uses modified v2 pieces and seems like it might be a bugger to get parts for. Anyone have any experience in this area with these?

Ares PPSH-41. Ares makes good stuff, this gun gets rave reviews. Only issue is the side arm here. No one seems to make a GBB russian pistol. Now I know I can always rock this in a german uniform as they were a favorite of the germans to capture. So a luger may work here. They were also used alot in vietnam as the Russians supplied arms.

A&K m60. This was used from VN all the way up to today still. American gear and side arms are easy to find and the m60 is used by many armies so lots of play room there. But its fricking 30lbs of gun to haul around the field. And its newer on the market. I have read some good reviews and some bad reviews on this. Any input?

BAR. This would just be cool to have. But the mags would be as rare as hen's teeth and so is the gun it self. We have a team member waiting on one and its been about 5 months now. Anyone know any other manufacture of said gun?

Marushin Garand. I don't know how field-able this would be. Being that you have to gas it up after about every 2 mags plus its got that horrid duel hop up system. Anyone use one in game? How were they? This one has lots of flexibility in kits as well.

Lastly mp40. I can use this as a german, as a VC, lots of options. Does anyone know how easy it is to get parts? I know its another AGM.

The only other gun I can think of would be an m14 to add to this list. It would be a WE though if I got it and I would like something I could use in colder weather.

If you guys can think of any other items I should add to this list to look into It would be much appreciated. Most of these would be around the same price minus the sten and mp40 *the cheaper two of the bunch* so pricing really won't factor in.

Thanks guys.

Hey Dart,

I own every gun that you mentioned except the PPSH-41.

The A&K M60 , the Sten, the B.A.R and the MP40 (to a much lesser extent) are skirmishable.

The Marushin Garand is fun to shoot. However it's 8mm with clips that pop out when empty. Good luck.

However, I'd love to have a WW2 game where one side had TW 98K's and the other had Marushin Garand's.

The A & K M60 and the VFC B.A.R both allow for a quick spring change. However, you have to remove the gearbox first. 4 screws removed on the M60 and the GB is free. You have to field strip the B.A.R to get to the GB.

The hop rubber and nub on the M60 are garbage. The M60 weighs is at ~20 lbs. Replace the hop up immediately. If you use the carry handle it'll break. There have been critical reviews of the box mag. I haven't had any problems with mine yet (+10,000 bb's so far). Mine was a bit wobbly when it arrive. Loctite and tightening some fasteners did the trick.

The 500mm stock inner barrel on my VFC B.A.R was too short making this AEG ridiculously under powered and inaccurate. I replaced mine with a PSG length 6.03 TB and it shoots great now. The VFC BAR is very very very solidly made.

Uncompany and airsofthq.at had VFC BAR Hi Cap mags in stock last time I checked. Never seen a BAR mid cap mag in stock anywhere.

I have a Viva Sten. I changed it into a Sten Mark 2S combining airsoft parts with RS parts. The Stens are gameable out of the box but their range and accuracy aren't the best IMHO but they are nice little shooters nonetheless.

The Cyma Thompson M1A1 is your best bet for a multi era ASG since has been used in conflicts from pre WW2 all the way to Bosnia and I wouldn't be shocked if some have been confiscated in Iraq and Afghan. Cyma Thompsons are highly skirmishable out of the box and are relatively easy to upgrade and mod (wood kit furniture etc)


I recommend (in particular order) the Cyma Thompson, the A & K M60 then the BAR and finally the Sten.

I have a WE M14 too. I haven't had a game with it yet. It seems ok but not sure about longevity since it reminds me of my broken Marushin M2 Carbine when I shoot it. At least there will be plenty of after market parts for the WE M14.

Quoted for truth! I own one of these as well and I love it! Shoots great, nice and heavy, v6 gearbox and the price was RIGHT!

+1 to the Tommy gun; I read an article in a police gun magazine a few years ago that said a guy came to a SWAT training course from a small southern US sheriff's dept. and he brought a Tommy gun, and claimed to use it on duty.

I would add a full-sized FN FAL or H&K G3 to the list. They've shown up all over the world in the last 40-50 years.

wow thank you so much!

firstly I have considered the Thompson and ended up holding one at a game a few times, I find them uncomfortable for some reason. They are not a very natural pointer. Mind you I bet it would just take some time to get used to it.

about the m60 carrying handle. I have read that its made of cheap metal as well. Now is it possible to put an after market handle on? no one seems to mention this in the reviews.

The bar will be the most challenging to get and the most patient testing.... how ever good things come to people that wait right lol.

And thats funny about the m2, that was another gun I was considering..... we will just cross that off the list :).

I guess another gun I should add though is the STG or MP44. I do not know about how much this was used outside of WW2 being replaced quickly with the ak47.

FN FAL would be cool. But the G3 is common out here for some reason and I am looking for a little spice, and something that goes back to older conflicts.

now why do you say the MP40 to a lesser extent? Is it mag size? or just under powered?

if you are leaning toward sFAL I highly recommend teh KING ARMS variant, they are solid performer out of the box

For the A&K M60 you should consider getting another hop up block, the A&K are pretty inconsistent...

Hop up block? Do you mean the rubber or the entire chamber? If you mean the rubber and nub yah I have read this a few times.

Anyone have experience with the ppsh?

I think what he means by hop up block is the metal unit. The CA ones are supposed to fit but are scarce at the moment. My hop up works decent but not stellar. However I won't be putting in a TB either. I want to keep it "raw" and not make it into a lazer with a 4K BB reservoir.. To each their own.

The A&K M60 carry handle is pot metal. Consider it a decoration and not functional.

The STG 44 is ok. I have one. The metal its made of is suspect. But the internals are upgradeable from what I have read. Factory mags are hi cap only. Some peolple have modded them to mid cap by using an MP5 mag inside the STG44 IIRC.

The STG 44 is sorta global. The US confiscated a few in Iraq early on. Post WW2 it was mostly used by Warsaw Pact LE and similar forces.

The AGM MP40's are like snowflakes. No two seem to be the same. I don't like them. They are creaky and underpowered. Some suffer from air seal problems. I don't like shooting mine.

I'd like to say I like KA FN Fals. But I have had four of them through my hands this year. 2 were fine out of ther box and the other two were lemons. They were all long lenght paras from UNCompany. I think others have had better success with either of the two carbine versions.

I mean the whole block is to change, if it was only the rubber I would not even mention it ;)

I suggest the M60, because M60. I love that thing. I'd go with the M60E4/Mk43 version, as it's shorter, lighter and has a nice front end, but the classic Pig is nice too.

Well, the thing for choosing between E1 and E3/MK43 is the balance : there's really a lot of weight on the front on the E1 (also known as VN or Vietnam).
I have a 417 (RS) which is a big gun, yet an airosft M60E1 still is hard to handle for me...
The MK43 on the other hand is way easier.

LOL

Is this the M60 discussion thread?

The E1 isn't the same as the "VN" or plain old M60. It's debatable that the E1even entered production.

E4 / MK43 was developed primarily in the 1990's.

The OP states he is looking for a gun that is multi era.

Back on topic.

I will +1 myself and say you should try handling a Cyma Thompson again. The sights on it are excellent for airsoft. You have lots of mag choices (60rd lo, 110rd mid and 190rd hi cap) readily available.

The price is very very good. Wood kits are available. And you can definitely game with it out of the box.

Edit: I really dislike the "T" stock on the aeg sten. The pistol grip or the wire stock are preferable. The RS ones are readily available. However you'll have to mod it to fit. The AEG stens do not have a spring return cap like the RS Stens do. The are fixed to the body by a screw.

MP40. I have played a handful of WW2 games the last 12 months. Honestly can say I haven't seen one Axis player game with one. The STG44 is THAT much better.

Get a thompson uncomfortable at first, but it grows on ya. Also probably one of the easiest gearboxes to take apart making it very easy to upgrade gotta love V6's. Just the bitch part is if you lose any of the selector switch pieces or break one good luck finding a replacement for it. Just one problem I noticed is that if you go prone with it the mag is a little to long making it uncomfortable to aim also no rail system or optic attachments, but can be solved with a drill and screws.

You never, EVERRRRRR put that shit on a Thompson. EVER.

You mean this guy?

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/t...mmysheriff.jpg

Here is pic of my Viva MK2S Sten and Cyma Thompson M1A1 (sorry no rails or optics)

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/t...up/Sten001.jpg

And The VFC B.A.R

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/t...p/DSC_0023.jpg

Adamlxlx with his:

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/t...up/Sten019.jpg

Since Evo posted I will throw in my avatar too.

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/t...up/Unnamed.jpg

Not a natural pointer?!
Haha, when you shoulder the gun, the sights come up to eye level and align just right.

Yeah I didn't get that either. I have had a number of people unfamiliar with the Thompson handle mine. Quite a number of them have said the Thompson has the best sights for airsoft engagements.

Dart, give the Thompson another look.

Yeah, especially with goggles/masks.

It just felt strange to me. Mind you come to think of it... I had been playing the day with a p90 so having my arms stretched out like that probably threw me off. I will take a peek at my buddies thompson out here.


Anyone know if the Chicago typewriter ever actually entered conflict? If so it would probably be limited to early ww2... hmm



and to the person that said put a rail on a WW2 era gun, you sir... are the worst kind of human.

I have books with period pics of US soldiers with Chicago Typewriters at St Mere Eglise. The pics are all of officers though. It's safe to say that the Chicago Typewriter style M1928 was used in limited numbers Post Normandy.

It was more common with the USMC throughout the Pacific war.


The Cyma Chicago Typewriter isn't remotely close to being correct visually though..

Hmm. Just got my price quotes back and the sten is less than half of the ppsh and m60 how ever I am iffy on the stens internals.

You never did answer if I can put a re steel handle on the m60... Hmmmmmm what to do what to do.

I have to throw out that an SVD would also make for a very wide range of conflicts. Everything from VN to current.

Of course if your going to get one you have to be prepared to go balls-deep and get the RS with a real POSP sight.

-Grant

I did consider that but I already have my roll as a sniper with my vsr and a buddy who is building a dmr m14. We do how ever not have a support player yet.

Have you considered an RPK or a c2/l2 for a support weapon? They've seen conflicts on pretty much every continent in the last 50 years. Including the war for Antarctica.

I'm loving my SRC/TSD RPK (The Alphabet Soup Gun)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5...sep1720104.jpg
(Ignore the AKMS, if you can...)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/916...oct3201028.jpg
Lots o' fun... :D

Ya Mike, the Thompson has some of the best iron sight in airsoft I have seen EVER, PERIOD lol.

Well after some sleepless nights and more googling than I could almost handle I have made a descision...ares ppsh-41! For the type of gaming we do out here a m60 would be too encombersoming *sp*. Basicly one field has a nice hill side that runs beside it and a city and island below. M60 in cqb would just suck lol and packing 30lbs of gun up that hill is not on my short list of things... My vsr and scar are enough. Anyone that has ever played at pac knows what I mean. The other field is mostly brush with some small buildings but those games are usually fast paced and not becoming to a large rifle.

The m60 seems like it needs a few annoying to find parts like the bipod yoke, hop up, and carrying handle to make it a sturdy weapon. Plus its got the wrong pistol grip on it for period and also the wrong mag... Plus the mag feeds on the wrong side.

The ppsh on the other hand runs a v7 gear box which is just a beauty to work on and lots of parts. The hop up is out of a g36 so again.. Parts. With 2500 rounds I can easily surpress people and become a suto saw if I need to. It opens up more conflict eras as well and countries. Plus the in soviet russia jokes will be too much fun lol.
Not to mention the ppsh is about $25 cheaper and it has the electronic blow back. Oh and its rare as hens teeth lol. Never seen one at the field.
Also if I don't like the ppsh I am sure it will sell in about 30 seconds of being up on the classifides.

Anyways I would like to thank you guys for your input. Looks like I just can't get away from russian guns... From a ak to a ppsh.

Hey Dart, congrats on making a decision on your next purchase. Even if you end up dislking the Ares PPSH-41 you should have no issue with selling it.

Ares is supposed to have an M3A? Grease Gun AEG coming out soon too. I am looking forward to that.

However, since other people may read this I have a rebuttal to your criticisms of the A & K M60 as they are a wee bit on the misinformation side of the spectrum

1. Bipod Yoke: Yes it could very well break as it is not made of the sturdiest metal. However, my A & K M60 survived an accidental 3' fall onto a concrete floor without issue. You can always mod another airsoft bi pod to get that M60 look. RS M60 bipods go for around ~$200 USD. apparently they are shite too. *Edit: The M60 bi pod seems no less sturdier than my KA FAL bi pod. Also, I have a 2010 production version of the A & K M60. Maybe they improved the metal quality on the 2010 version from the 2009 production run.

2. Hop Up. Yeah the stock hop is sub par. Same goes for 100's of other AEGs. Edit, replacing the rubber and nub is always a good idea. Replacing the whole unit is ideal if and when they are in stock.

3. Carry Handle. Again not the sturdiest. However plenty of period pics show the M60 being carried other shoulder with no sling to be seen as it really was the only comfortable way to carry it. Even the US Army M60 manual recommends one hand on the carry handle and the other hand on the stock for movement from prone. The carry handle is there because the barrel of the real M60 got petty toasty after 200 rounds of sustained fire. You needed a gunner assistant to remove the barrel with an asbestos glove. I'll take a wild shot in the dark and say that most of those broken carry M60 carry handles are from holding it one handed like a suitcase around the field.

4. Wrong pistol grip: true, if it really really annoys you tape 'er up or search the 'nam airsoft boards for a resin copy of the Top M60 version (apparently possible and available).

5. Wrong mag: it's a decent functional airsoft version of the canvas bandloeer. All that is missing is the wax carboard box and the wearability of a bandoleer. It's not as if an Airsoft M60 bandloeer would be anywhere but on the M60 considering it holds a battery and the wire bb feed tube. You can always make a cardboard box that fits if you like. However, I understand that the Ino M60VNs come with carboard.

6. The mag feeds on the wrong side. Not sure where you got this info. However, this is only true if you are in England driving on the "wrong" side of the road.

One cool feature of the A & K M60 is that you can replicate the RS M60's fondness for becoming a "runaway" gun. Drop a bb or two underneath the mechbox when it's out of the receiver and you'll know what I am talking about.

Again Dart, enjoy your new purchase and be sure to put up a review.

Sob your making me want the pig again lol. Yah the one I am looking at would be a brand new model so maybe these issues have been worked out. Hmmm.

I forgot to mention that the adjustable rear sights on the A & K M60VN are incorrect too. :-(

well I ordred the ppsh today so should have it in my hands in the next 2 weeks. I'll keep you in mind if I don't like it :P

By the box mag fed on the wrong side I ment is it should be on the other side of the gun. From what I figure from reading is that they just put a VN front end on the mk version. I wish viva arms was not the only ones making nice ww2 support weapons. a Bren would be sexy, any german support weapons... browning machine gun... so many! and so simple to make. Oh and the italian top fed disc mag gun *I forget the name* and not to mention all the japanese weapons that are untapped.

everyone seems to be interested in ARs, fucking cookie cutter guns. WW2 had way more eligence and inovations.

Dart, IIRC that sounds like a description the Hexagon Productions PPSH41.

I thought the Ares one had a "new type" gear box and a two piece hop up. The Ares one has the quick change spring. Unfortunately the spring is attached to the piston :rolleyes:

I read not too long ago on an overseas WW2 board that there are air seal problems with both versions but especially the Ares model. Some guys were using M170 springs and only getting 370 fps. The other huge criticism was that the gun looked too "perfect" (welds, wood finish) given the fact that it was a massed produced weapon during a time of crisis. Others found the electric blowback to be too gimmicky.

Also, the Hexagon one comes with a sling while the Ares model does not.

I should have a Hexagon one in my hands shortly :)

I'll be doing a review on it once I've got it.

I'm not a fan of ANYTHING Ares :/

Their guns are certainly better than when they were making guns for STAR.... but they use WAY too much proprietary stuff.

A & K M60
http://softaaja.fi/uutiskuvat/akm60/A-M60-1s.jpg
Real M60
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s/e/e9/M60.jpg

They both feed on the left.

the ares is a quick power change system.... bascily a spacer behind the spring, thats how I understand it anyways. The ares is supposed to be pretty close to the hexigon one.

as for it being too perfect... well people would complain if it wasn't right :P can't please eveyone. How ever one pet peeve I DO have is the bolt goes the wrong way. The PPSH fires from an open bolt where as the electronic bolt fires from a closed bolt lol. 99% of people wouldn't notice that though.

I guess I will just have to wait and see when I get it. I will do a full tear down review of it for you guys.

Amos that will be great, we should get together on that and do a comparitive review of the two. I am pretty sure AMG was supposed to be making a PPSH as well.


and thats odd, maybe I was reading about another version of the m60? or looking at a review of a different airsoft model... ok now I am just confused. lol.

edit: it looks like A&K didn't even get the front set right on the m60.... unless that other one has something on it? kinda looks like its wrapped in tape or something.

The front sight seems "close enough" but A & K botched the gas cylinder safe wiring.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...achine_gun.jpg

I saw an Ino M60 up close a few weekends back. Very nice. It looked much more authentic. But of course it should be at that price point.

Hey the A & K is a clone.

Also, if you even see a RS Sten MK2 up close you'll see the glaring differences between it and the airsoft versions.

yah they have a military mussuem here and I took a peek at some of the ww2 stuff. Some really neat stuff in there that I never even knew existed.

I have heard the INO is horriable for wobble how ever. And at the price I have seen at around 4k on here a little expensive to go play with.
And what do you mean by gas cylinder safe wiring?

Look at the wires on the gas cylinder that are very clear in the last pic I posted. They are on the RS M60 to keep the cylinder from self disassembling.

oh yah I see that now. hmm Its like a girl pointing out she has a mole... after you know its there you can't help but stare at it lol.

Yeah, the A & K M60 has her fair share of moles. But she is fun and wasn't too hard on my wallet.

Hey Dart, have you received it yet?