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Upgrading an L96
Now, I know there are tons of threads on this but they all give me headaches. Lots of different opinions etc. I wanna keep it simple.
Now, what do I have to buy to get a consistent, reliable, 450 fps with 0.20s (but will be using 0.30 or 0.36 Bastards). Dont tell me everything, I want a list so I can copy paste it in my shopping cart. thanks |
PDI 210 spring gives 450 with .2s. That plus a tightbore are the basics. Good piston + head will give you more consistent FPS. Plus a good hop-up setting or a PDI hop-up unit, which would be the best way to go, is crucial. L96 hops seem to be hit or miss, so if you can't get yours set well you might need an aftermarket one.
Edit: Cylinder head will also increase consistency enough to consider adding that. So: PDI 210 Spring Piston + Piston Head Tightbore Hop-up unit (Optional) Good hop rubber Cylinder Head May I ask what brand it is? Some of them have awful barrel spacers that are thin foam which need to be replaced to keep your barrel steady. |
I was already planning on buying new spacers. The tightbore is a 500mm one yes?
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No problem, what you could actually do instead of buying spacer is roll duct tape around the inner barrel in two spots until it's thick enough to just slide into the outer barrel smoothly. Cheaper than buying spacers and I find it's more effective because you get about twice the coverage and a tighter fit. Only problem is if you have to switch inners for whatever reason you'll need to repeat the process.
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that actually is a good idea, thanks again. As for the tightbore, what brand would be best? (and i need a 500mm for it yeah?)
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Madbull V2s are quite good for the price, I used one in my L96 and M24 and it worked great. And yep 500mm works, I had a 499mm.
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Go with a PDI Tightboar and PDI Hop up Chamber combo off Xfire not cheap and the Hop chamber will take you a while to dial in (Dual adjustment) but when you dial it in it is pure slick
+1 on the spring too XFIRE also has the spacers too http://www.x-fire.org/etop/t96.html you want http://www.x-fire.org/type96/e.t96_cylinderset_vc.html or http://www.x-fire.org/type96/e.t96_c...et_vc_pal.html And Hop Chamber . bucking and all accessories (seals like a charm) http://www.x-fire.org/type96/e.t96_chamber.html And Spacers - set of 2 http://www.x-fire.org/type96/e.04spacer.html and finally the Inner to match your PDI Hop http://www.x-fire.org/04/96/04_pdichamber/e.main.html Possible just for SEXY LOOK http://www.x-fire.org/type96/e.t96_durabarrel_fl.html and http://www.x-fire.org/type96/e.t96_hider_ai1.html Yep a lot of $$ but if you have it get the best man... there is your shopping list add to cart click buy it now.. sexy gun... had one... |
Yea if you have the cash PDI is the way to go. Mine is a cheaper solution with Modify + Madbull. Basically your options are down to your budget now.
Good luck with the upgrades. =D |
this is all excellent, thanks both of you for your help. Gotta go beg the bank now haha!
EDIT : did the xe.com test. What the fuck is wrong with the Yen? all upgrade parts : about 500$. Its actually not that bad, but still might upgrade it part by part... probably will start with the basics like Treefinger said : tightbore and spring |
You'll also want to look into the Zero or the V-trigger. Your trigger sears will snap pretty quick. Again, it's very pricey but you have to do it right or not at all :)
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cool, goes on my wishlist too!
like i said, I wont cheapen out on the upgrades. I will do it step by step though. Because buying 500$ worth of upgrades for a toy gun wont make a certain missus that happy you know... |
TBH, do it all at once to save on shipping.
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Save until you have enough for everything, and hit up X-fire. My brother recently built an APS-2 with full PDI upgrades, and he got everything in one shot from X-fire. Maybe email them and see when they will have everything in stock?
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if you want to go part by part that is ok but plan it out look at the end result if you are going PDI as the end result then you need to go PDI with the inner barrel and the Hop those are really a must together.. you can just change those out (a lot of cost there..)
if you go with another inner then don't get the PDI hop unit it won't work. sniper rifles are basically a breed all their own... as are good snipers... I do agree if you have the cash then get everything at once Xfire is not cheap but the parts are worth it... they will probably be the last upgrade parts you buy for this gun... if treated right... but yea shipping is going to suck good luck mate with the build |
hey everybody
wondering if I have a second option for the spring because I have a lot of difficulty finding a PDI 210. Would a PSS2 150 work or would the FPS be too high (I'm aiming for 450 with 0.2) |
ok so I just bought a 6.03 tightbore barrel and SP120 spring (should get 425fps with the tightbore) off Airsoft Park. Now lets move on to the next things. What should I buy next?
EDIT : scratch that, didnt buy 'em because they were the wrong ones. Back to case one haha |
Upgraded sears or a whole new trigger assembly. Though I've never had a problem with my L96 sears, it's recommended that you get one of those or you might run risk of breaking your sears.
You could skip it and get a new piston. You should check the diameter of the spring you bought, there are 7 and 9mm springs for the aps & aps2 system. So you may need to replace the guide to a 9mm as well as the piston. I know I had to. I'm not 100% sure that all of them come stock 7mm, but I know the TSD ones do. |
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Sorry to bring up the old forum... But instead of starting a new one, I thought maybe I can continue on with this one.
I just got an L96 today, didn't come with a scope thought so I used my 4x ACOG... Kind of work, kind of didn't. Took it out to a game, 3 out of 10 shot the bb flew kind of well, at least it ended up where I wanted. The other 7 either went straight up(I use .3 bb-bastard) before passing the 125 feet mark or went left. And this is with hop up off! I took the gun apart... What I notice is when the hop up is turn off, the rubber still seem like it's on. I figure maybe it's because the rubber is thicker. Maybe someone can tell me otherwise? I also broke the black circle thing that hold the barrel a line with the hop up unit, but I made sure I went back on properly... Maybe someone could tell me where I can get another one. I'm planning on getting the PDI hop up unit anyway so would I still need it? I heard that 6.01 barrel can cause jam pretty easily... So I'm thinking 6.03 is by best bet, so that means I would need a PDI inner barrel as well to fit the PFI hop up unit. What about the hop up rubber? Does it come with the hop up unit or do I need to get it separately? Is it the same as the stock one? Or a total different system? I have a Madbull 6.03 inner barrel laying around, would that work? Or do I need a specific l96 inner barrel for even the stock hop up system(Maybe my stock barrel is bent)? As for zero trigger/ v-trigger... I see that they come with a piston? What if I want to get a PDI VC Precision Cylinder set, will that set's piston work or do I have to use the zero/v-triggers' piston? Also I'm having a lot of trouble finding one for the L96... Any help there would be great! I'm mainly looking for consistency, and hopefully effective range is about 150 feet if not more. Any suggestion of which part or is the first pages' upgrade list what I should aim for? If I'm planning on doing parts by parts, which step do you think I should do first? And second? What about third to last? I'm also confused on the different type of L96... What's the APS? and APS2? Or are they completely different guns and therefore different parts? Also quick question about scopes, do I REALLY need a $150+ scope? or does a cheapy like $50ish EA scope works just fine? Thank you for your time, I know this is a lot to answer in one sitting, but any/all info is greatly appreciated. |
So I bought is:
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/media/cat...E96_1_mark.jpg Looks the same, but instead of engraved their brand logo on it.. It's like the image... Is there a difference? Maybe different version(says "oringinal" hop up unit)?.... Now I'm a bit worry on buying the wrong one... Anyways! Thanks for the help. |
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Thanks Eldin!
Another question: What is the difference between 7mm and 9mm spring guide? And can Modify parts compete with PDI? or is it like Pro vs Joe? Just want to know what my option are here when it comes to upgrading... |
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9mm spring guides support springs with an 11mm inner diameter 7mm spring guides support springs with a 9mm inner diameter. |
Highnny, I just bought a TSD L96 (same as UTG both are manufactured by Well and rebrand as UTG or TSD) I had the same problem with the hop-up unit, it was not moving or barely moving even when the screw was completely unscrewed. So I took it appart and realized that the pin going through the hop up arm was way too tight in the frame of the hop-up unit and was putting alot of friction, hence why the hop-up arm was not moving or barely.
With a small round file I filed the openings replaced the pin and now the hop-arm works freely like a charm and the hop-up move up and down no problem like it should. I had the cheap plastic ring broken as well. It is only there for keeping the barrel from rotating, so far does not seem to affect anything really, but still I have sent an email to TSD for some spare parts. Should not be expensive (extra hop-up and plastic ring). I am not buying the PDI hop-up, since once fixed the regular hop up does work fine (alot of people seems to don't know how to fix it tough). And I got the Madbull APS2 499mm 6.03 TB with Modify spacers, will see from there after... |
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There's laylax and DPI... Don't know which one to choose... From the look on classified, people usually mix the two... Is that a good idea?... Also, does TM v/zero trigger fit a maruzen clone? Quote:
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Also you can send a PM to AMOS, he knows bolt action stuffs |
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Question: -VP and HP, which is better? -Silencer, how big of difference does it really make?... From 50-100 feet away. -I've heard there is a short version of the L96 which uses 333mm inner barrel... By shortening the barrel... How much "effective range" will I lose? -Has anyone heard of the brand "military arms" inner barrel? Are they any good? I can't find anything on google... It just keeps coming up with military stuff... So now it's all comes down to my budget and how the performance the next game I attend with the new PDI hop up unit, Prometheus soft hop up rubber and bucking, duck take spacer, bb bastards .3 bbs, and madbull 509 6.03 inner barrel! Wish me luck! |
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Lots of questions and random answers in this thread.
PDI makes every possible part for that rifle. That includes receivers, barrel sets, cylinders, pistons, triggers and hop-up units. LayLax (or Prometheus, they are the same, Promy is AEG and Laylax is bolt action) make only the parts that are required to have a very good rifle. It's all up to personal preference. I tried PDI cylinder sets a few times and I am not touching then anymore. You DON'T want to mix and match systems. PDI makes a kind of upgrade parts, and generally,every other brand uses an other method. Means if you want to install PDI cylinder sets, go with their trigger, piston and all other related parts. If, like me, you can't stand them, go with quality parts from OTHER brands. If you want a PDI gun, you should go with theses, in order: PDI hop-up unit. PDI 6.04 10mm tightbore barrel, 499mm (the outer diameter is larger, reduces vibrations a lot, more consistent and precise shots). Firefly AEG hop-up rubber. Soft or Hard (not Super soft or Super hard), depending on FPS. Sub 450 is soft. PDI barrel spacers (at least 2) for 10mm barrels. PDI bolt carrier replacement screw. That is the screw you see at the rear of the bolt that hold everything in place. The stock part is junk. Upgrade is worth it. PDI V-Trigger for APS-2 Type 96. Can be used with stock piston and bolt while you gather the 300$ for the next step. PDI Vacuum type LV.3 bolt upgrade set for sub 450 fps guns. OR PDI Heavy type LV.3 bolt upgrade set for over 450 fps guns. Then if you want to build a gun with something else, you actually have to use some PDI parts. PDI hop-up unit. PDI 6.04 10mm tightbore barrel, 499mm (the outer diameter is larger, reduces vibrations a lot, more consistent and precise shots). Firefly AEG hop-up rubber. Soft or Hard (not Super soft or Super hard), depending on FPS. Sub 450 is soft. PDI barrel spacers (at least 2) for 10mm barrels. PDI bolt carrier replacement screw. That is the screw you see at the rear of the bolt that hold everything in place. The stock part is junk. Upgrade is worth it. Laylax Zero trigger set. Does not come with a piston. If it does, it is not the right one. It has to be made for "APS-2 Type 96" The regular APS-2 trigger DOES NOT WORK. Modify APS-2 Type 96 piston. I like this one quite a lot. Sear end is steel, body is aluminium and it uses modular heads like the 3-pieces pistons. Prometheus or Modify APS-2 piston head. (Does not have to say Type 96, it is the same part). Laylax upgraded spring guide set (you can change the shaft from 7mm to 9mm but don't forget to thread lock the shaft). OR Modify 7mm or 9mm spring guide for Type 96. I prefer the Modify part over Laylax, but if you are on thigh budget, the Laylax one will let you change spring without extra expenses. PSS-2 120sp, 130sp 140sp and 150sp springs. With both spring guides, you get a range of FPS from 400 to 550. Laylax teflon cylinder for APS-2 Type 96. Again, T96 part, not just APS-2. Modify steel cylinder head for T96. Laylax sorbo-pad set for VSR-10. (It works for T96, install all 3 pads on top of each other) When you have all that in your rifle, you have a VERY decent gun. Fitting the parts might be tricky on clones, but worth it. I found that Laylax/Modify parts are more forgiving for fitment, and do a better overall job (since we are not playing is a white room, thing can't always be perfect). |
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Question: Today I've notice that when I'm about 100-150 feet away from someone in a fire fight... They can usually do the matrix thing where they move right away after seeing something flying towards them(I did it a few times). It's the noise that gave the shot away! So my question is: Does a silencer really silence my shot? Or do I need to mod it from internally(silence piston?)? Thanks again everyone for all the great and insightful input! |
You can use a 200mm silencer with a decent foam insert (insulation for pipes is not).
You can also fill your stock with minimal expansion foam made to fill cracks aroung house pipes and stuff. Take the minimal expansion or it will destroy your stock. Helps reduce echos from the shot and further silencer the gun. When people do the matrix thing, it usually means they have seen you before you shot them. You can use black BB if they are available in the weight you are using. Just a lot hard to setup hop-up and zero your sight. |
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Question: You mention using "sorbo-pad" in my upgrades, but what are they for? Also, where can I find a v-trigger?... xfire doesn't seem to carry it. Thanks. |
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If it's a sniper rifle, the "hammer" hitting the bb and the bb exiting the barrel make the most noise. a silencer works if its usually exiting the barrel that makes the most sound. also, if you dont maintain youre rifle correctly, dust/dirt/pollen/debris will get caught in there and accumulate, making your shots louder. If its a gas gun, see above lol; its either the "hammer" or the bb exiting the barrel again. and again, if you dont take good care of your gun, it will misbehave and scream profanities at the most inopportune of times |
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You mean when the piston hits the cylinder head?... |
A silencer on a BA rifle changes everything. ALL the noise come from 2 sources:
The barrel end, where the compression of the air and in impact of the piston on the cylinder head is making noize. You can reduce that with the use of sorbo pads (to minimize the amount of energy transfered to the cylinder, which can resonate and create noise), and with a good silencer. You "can" make one using any tube, filled with foam. The best foam to use is the fibrous type. You can buy a bunch of boot soles and cut rings in it. Closed-cell type of foam (like insulation foam) is NOT recommended because air is not able to go past the first layer of "broken" bubbles. You also want a metal tube. Keeps the size smaller (you would need a 2" ABS tube to get a decent inner air volume Vs 1.5" aluminium tube) and be sturdy enough not to resonate the noise. BOTH ENDS NEED TO BE CLOSED! If not, you basically build a super-sized madbull Noveske "firepig" The other noise source is the cylinder resonating. The vibration of the receiver rebounds and gets amplified in the hollow stock. What ever the brand, it always resonates. You can fill the stock with minimal expansion foam. The stuff cost 5-10$ at hardware store. Just make sure you get the minimal expansion one. Double or triple will just split your stock in half. Best thing is to leave the stock assembled. If you have a VSR or other similar clone that have a glued butt stock, make sure it is on very well and duct-tape it in place before starting, the foam will try to push it out. Drill a hole under the stock, about 1/4". That will be used to fill the stock (using the little tube that comes with the foam can) and to let air escape. Fill the stock at about 3/4 and let dry. Wait about 2 days before doing the accessible part (under the barrel and receiver). When you do it, wrap the barrel and receiver loosely with saran wrap. Fill the stock at 3/4 and put the receiver on like it will be when done. There should be enough air escape for the foam. It should foam out the sides and such. The good thing about that foam is that an X-Acto blade will cut it like butter when fully dry. You can't really screw-up if you take your time and let the foam dry properly before gaming it. |
So... I got the PDI Hop up unit and get what?...
The stock cylinder head doesn't fit. Like it's too big!... So I was wondering... Would why? Did this happen to anyone else? So now I'm having doubt going the modify/Laylax path... So I be worrying? Also I didn't put one of the hop up screw all the way in and manage to warp the alen key hole a little, how the alen key won't fit in, but it does turn though... Can I get a replacement screw anywhere?... Any help would be great! |
Hot glue and plasticine works better than expanding insulation :)
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I almost wasted over $300 worth of upgrade parts just to find out that the PDI hop up doesn't fit that set up.. |
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Strange though because lots of people said that the pdi hop-up was fitting bolt on no problem on L96 clones, they never mentionned anything about the cylinder head not fitting. Kos-Mos can you please let us know what is going on here? Because in your upgrade list you stated the modify cylinder head for Type 96 and the pdi hop-up. Have you ever try that combination? If yes how come some people says that is does not fit? |
Either way, I order a laylax cylinder head. I asked airsoftparts and he said they should both fit. So I'll let you know if the laylax one does or doesn't fit properly. If not I can always return it as he said "they should" fit. Maybe I'll exchange it for the modify one to see if some of the rumor is true.
And DAMN! I'm having such a hard time finding the PDI zero trigger for the L96 series... Everything I find is either for VSR-10 or APS-2. Does anyone know why x-fire doesn't sell the PDI v-trigger?... They got everything but the v-trigger.. Do they stink or something?... Well, does the Laylax one compatible with the PDI Cylinder set?... Any help would be awesome! |
I have read in another forum another guy with apparently a cylinder head problem, not fitting in, but he realized that somewhere there wasa tiny screw that was blocking a bit of the cylinder head (not talking about the adjustment screw here) It should work, the modify cylinder as well as the stock one, the nozzle of the cylinder should fit in the hop-up.
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FYI to all who uses PDI hop up unit and couldn't wait to use it and was careless about the hop up adjusting screw and didn't put it in far enough before attempting to push the cylinder head and end up bending the hop up adjuster screw like me, X-fire got repair kit for the PDI hop up unit.
I just placed an order for them. Haha, hopefully I get them in sooner! I'll update the new cylinder head once I get it in the mail. |
So, does anyone know if Laylax's zero trigger system works with PDI cylinder set?...
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Yup, but get the PDI trigger, it works better.
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www.x-fire.org
Edit: Yup.. you appear to be right. Try Dentrininty or another one of those "we stock really old stuff" places. |
So, in conclusion to what I was saying, the Laylax piston head is compatible with the stock cylinder head. Also here's the important part, the piston head DO fit the PDI hop up unit.
Always, here's what I found out after tossing everything together including a madbull 509mm 6.03 tightbore. My FPS increase from 450(stock) to 485fps. My accuracy has increase quite a bit, and pretty consistence, but that's with 50 feet. I'll give a more detail update after this Friday. |
I'm thinking of building the whole gun with laylax parts. Anyone know if that's somewhat close to what PDI provide?
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Personaly, I find that it makes a better rifle, but usually more expensive and hard to upgrade, since not all parts are from the same company and in stock where you order.
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So far I lost the spring and order another one off x-fire. Now I'm just waiting for it to get here because my accurracy is pretty sad when it comes to how my hop up is doing... But it is getting pretty far, now I can compete with an AEG, weeee... More to come. |
Just received full Modify parts for my Well (TSD) L96 (spring guide, piston, piston head, cylinder head, barrel spacers) for it and fitted the pdi hop-up with a Madbull 6.03 509mm. Everything works perfectly fine, the modify Cylinder head fitted no problem with the pdi hop-up. I have a velocity of 446 FPS with 0,20 and so far with some tweaking of the hop-up (it is not over yet just started tweaking it), I am able to achieve chest hits consistently at 150 feet (indoor no wind). For the amount that it costed me (overall with the gun less than $450) I am very happy with the results!
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This is pretty cool!
Your go the Modify way and I'll take the Laylax root, we'll have a shootout in the end to see how we do, hehe. |
Looks like my project have to be put on hold seeing how outdoor season is over...
Does anyone know how Bolt Action do in winter time?... Would the metal break easier when it's cold? For storage through the winter, should I disassemble the gun? Like every component just so keeping them in my cold basement wouldn't keep the spring compress constently? Also keep the o-ring in a little bottle of silicone oil just so they don't dry out? Or is all this unnecessary? What's your recommendation on keeping my Bolt Action top notch through the cold winter? Also, could someone walk me through how to install barrel spacer? Do I put them on my inner barrel then slide it into the outer? Or should I push the spacer into the outer barrel then slide the inner barrel through?... I got 4, so evening them out is kind of hard... Thanks for the help! |
Don't need to do anything. If you assembled it properly, it will stay top-notch until next year.
That said, a little maintenance is always a good thing after you have stored anythin for a while, be it a computer, car or airsoft gun. You can play with it in winter. The parts are made a lot simplier and sturdier than in an AEG, in fact there will be little to no difference... maybe a higher FPS (air is denser when cold). For the spacer, you can place them on the tightbore and hold then in place with a few turns of tape on both sides... |
Wee, took my gun out with a 250mm silencer on it for a game today, boy am I impressed.
At 150 feet, all I hear is the bb zipping by. IT WAS AMAZING! That being the cool factor, he was aiming right at me... So, after about an hour trying to adjust my hop up and another 30 mins moving around to make sure wind wasn't a factor to my right curving bbs. Yep, that's right, my bb flies to the right. At roughly 150 feet, it was about a foot to the right of the target... I try reducing the hop to the right, not much effect. It was annoying!... Maybe my inner barrel is bent... or... Worse case, my outer barrel is bent! That would be terrible!... So long story short, I know Kos-Mos suggested the PDI inner barrel, but I was wondering if a Prometheus 6.03 inner barrel would do just as good with about 4 barrel spacer AND a length of 550-650 would be a good idea? Any thought on it would be greatly welcomed! |
Promy barrel will do just fine.
but you really only need 2 barrel spacers... I had one with a 650mm barrel and still used only spacers in the outerbarrel, plus the support from the silencer adapter. |
What types of benefit do I get with a longer inner barrel? More range? Consistency? Or does it even make a big difference between 495 and 650?
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First off, I'll have to apologize for bringing up this thread again, but it has been one of the most informative in terms of upgrading an L96 and thought I'd bring some light into a semi-unanswered question in the thread.
So here is my proposed setup: Base Rifle = TSD / Well L96 Hop Up system = PDI Hop Up Chamber for Type 96 Tight Bore Barrel = PDI APS2 Type 96 6.01 Tight Bore Barrel 495mm Barrel Spacers = PDI Regular 8mm Barrel Spacers (2pk) for Type 96 [need to modify to 10mm] Cylinder/Piston/Spring Guide = PDI Type 96 Palsonite Cylinder Set VC Trigger System = Laylax Type 96 L96 Zero Trigger Bucking = Prometheus Hard Hopup Bucking Kit [may use the one with the PDI hopup for a while and save this for a rainy day] now that you've gathered up how upgraded the rifle is, what I'd like to ask the following: 1. What spring with this setup, or similar, would give the rifle an overall FPS rate of 400 with a 0.3 BB? Preferred spring would be from PDI if possible. 2. What spring would give 450 FPS with 0.3 BBs? Preferred spring would be from PDI if possible. 3. Is there something in the Proposed Setup that doesn't go well with the other? why and what would you swap it out with? Please feel free to use this chart to help determine the answer: PDI Spring Guide (I can read the guide too, but I'd prefer to get a confirmation from someone because I don't want to over or under shoot and end up paying for another set of springs) 400 is for the sniper restrictions in the general Toronto area. Go outside of the main area and it starts picking up to 450-500, but I'll stick it to 450 and am willing to swap out the spring when traveling. PS - please don't rag on the fact that I'm not age verified yet. I'm still waiting to hear back from someone or I may just go to one of the TTAC meets one day. Also, this isn't my first gun and am aware of the sniper role that seems to be always mentioned in every thread and am going get my BA Cert. I'm also aware of the safety and risks of handling a high powered weapon, I have handled many types of firearms already. I'm not being hostile just simply trying to get some info here about the rifle upgrades and don't really need a lecture that I see often with new members posting. |
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2. An aps 260 should get you at about 450 on a .3g bb The chart looks pretty accurate, the chart looks a bit too overpowered, but other things such as compression, barrel bore and hopup seal (http://www.tristanluke.com/Images/seal-baby.jpg) make a difference in your fps. 3. The only thing that I can see is to get a new cylinder head, they're fairly cheap, and sorbo pads don't hurt either, just reduces the wear and tear on the cylinder. |
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Thanks again for the quick reply |
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