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-   -   WETTI/AWSS - M4/SCAR/HK416 - Technical Summary Thread (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=90068)

Thenooblord January 19th, 2010 21:02

whats BCG

jamuke January 19th, 2010 21:32

I'm guessing bolt carrier something

808 January 19th, 2010 21:38

Yeah - Bolt Carrier Group

BIG January 20th, 2010 17:02

7 mags. CO2. so far so good :)

Shirley January 21st, 2010 01:55

Hmmm, where to find WE magazine feed lips.. Except from Evike... :(

Edit: found one at thewarstore

Thenooblord January 21st, 2010 19:14

Im very dissappointed by the RA tech nozzle, i got my gun up and running again, and not even finished one mag of dry fire and the nozzle is completely crushed
should i send it back to RA tech? or just move the adjustable valve into my better condition stock nozzle?

Shirley January 21st, 2010 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenooblord (Post 1147416)
Im very dissappointed by the RA tech nozzle, i got my gun up and running again, and not even finished one mag of dry fire and the nozzle is completely crushed
should i send it back to RA tech? or just move the adjustable valve into my better condition stock nozzle?

Pics? how can that even happen.

Thenooblord January 21st, 2010 19:17

1 Attachment(s)
like tysons pics from earlier in the thread

m102404 January 21st, 2010 19:31

If it was just dryfiring and no BBs at all then it's likely that one (or a combination) of following things happened:
1. The lip of the nozzle seal was catching the edge of the cylinder when it went from fully retracted to moving forward
2. The overall collapsed length of the nozzle/piston body was too long...and it basically smushed itself.
3. The strength of the nozzle body was compromised by either machining the gas inlet slots too large (not leaving enough support) or its rigidity was compromised by improper heat tempering.

You should be able to just drop that floating valve into a different nozzle. Take care that you either clip the little cross-section of the spring off of the old nozzle or use the nozzle from the kit which differs from the stock one in that the cross-bar part of it has been clipped off already.

I smushed one too...from using too much heat to break the loctite and repeated jamming when I was goofing around with testing. Pics on page two of this thread.


Noob....where's your spacer in the bottom assembly? Is that how it was as pulled from the gun? Or just thrown together re-assembled for the pic?

Thenooblord January 21st, 2010 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by m102404 (Post 1147433)

Noob....where's your spacer in the bottom assembly? Is that how it was as pulled from the gun? Or just thrown together re-assembled for the pic?

good question... i dont know where it went, i thought i had it, maybe i didnt put it on when i changed nozzles, amybe it cracked and broke off? would that damage it? is it important?



I didnt use heat to break the locktite to get the stock nozzle apart, instead I used a drill, drilled out the center of the brass so that just the 4 corners remained and htey popped right off, kinda destructive, but effective

Shirley January 21st, 2010 20:35

lol that spacer aligns your nozzle to the cyinder.. Maybe that's why it mushed?

Thenooblord January 21st, 2010 20:37

dont see how it would do that, it doesnt touch the cylinder, it just keeps the nozzle away from the bolt a bit further...

Thenooblord January 21st, 2010 20:48

I now just put the spare valve spring on the rod where the spacer went, just to see what it does, maybe better airseal? ;p

m102404 January 21st, 2010 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman (Post 1147502)
lol that spacer aligns your nozzle to the cyinder.. Maybe that's why it mushed?

That's incorrect. That spacer "spaces" out the nozzle to the correct length so that it seats fully into the chamber and creates a seal. Without it the nozzle might not seat fully, or might blow back prematurely creating a leak.

If the spacer is too long...you will definitely crush your nozzle (that's why it's a bad ideal to keep shooting when you've got a bad jam as well).

If it's not there, it's unlikely that's the cause of the crushed nozzle.

The SCAR nozzle is aligned by the e-clip that secures it to the bolt. The flanges on the bolt are weak...and if they deform, the nozzle will go out of line and hit the cylinder with every shot. (I'd bet $1 that Noob's piston body is all deformed at the rear flange)

Yours was deformed too...but I wacked it back into shape when I swapped in the adjustable nozzle the other night.

Shelledpants was tweaked as well when I took his apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenooblord (Post 1147513)
I now just put the spare valve spring on the rod where the spacer went, just to see what it does, maybe better airseal? ;p

The weak little spring from the nozzle? That's too soft. Try a stiffer spring...the "crush" dimensions of the scar setup are very small (I think it's 2-3mm...can't remember off hand). If you put a spring in there, be sure that it "crushes" to that size or less while still exerting significant expansion force or you'll stress the other nozzle. If it's not exerting enough force...then it might give when you shoot a BB (when there's back pressure...there's no back pressure if you're dry firing) and the nozzle might set back, resulting in a leak.

Are you sure you should keep destroying this gun...it's not going to be worth anything by the time you're done with it. :)

Thenooblord January 21st, 2010 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by m102404 (Post 1147526)

Are you sure you should keep destroying this gun...it's not going to be worth anything by the time you're done with it. :)

ehhh, passes the time...

Thenooblord January 22nd, 2010 11:21

I just smushed another nozzle.. guys, what do i gotta do to fix this? this is pissing me off, and nozzles are expensive
this one is still "useable" so Id like to save it

808 January 22nd, 2010 11:26

Firstly, step away from the gun. Don't hurt her any more.

Secondly, at this point, you should detail what your installation steps are in case you've missed anything.

Thenooblord January 22nd, 2010 11:29

not sure what you mean by that
put nozzle in bolt, put bolt in gun, shoot a target, remove destroyed nozzle

Shirley January 22nd, 2010 11:42

Have you even loctite the nozzle onto the rod? Maybe you're shooting it, it comes too loose and BAM, crushed.
It could be your magazine feed lip too. Check your inner barrel if it's on and not blocking the way?

m102404 January 22nd, 2010 11:43

There's obviously (now it's obvious...sorry for your luck) something wrong in the setup. Not necessarily a "trying to fit tab A into slot B" problem, but there's some kind of tolerance thing involved.

Another odd ball kind of thing that could be happening...
- the chamber that you're using may not allow the nozzle to seat properly...even if you've got the overall length ok.

If you let the bolt go forward slowly/gently by hand...does it seat fully?

Anyways...if you're just guessing at things, better off to get it to someone who might be able to make better sense of it.

Or ruin it completely...I'll buy it cheap for parts afterwards...:) (just kidding)

Thenooblord January 22nd, 2010 11:50

the only binding i find is that the large oring never seems to get lube, so it gets frozen and sticks

the only thing that is different from stock now is the valve in the nozzle, its got stock nozzle, stock cylinder, and I didnt have these issues before

you fix it tyson!
lol

m102404 January 22nd, 2010 11:55

Break out a big handful of $$$ and book a time with me. I'm technically out of the gun doc stuff now...but these things are neat so it's at least interesting to work on.

Thenooblord January 22nd, 2010 11:56

how big a handful, lol

808 January 22nd, 2010 14:18

If the "big o-ring" is sticking - then that's what's causing it to break the nozzle.

It's likely at this point that your cylinder is bent/damaged and will need to be re-aligned or replaced.

But again - take this info with a grain of salt, as I'm just trying to do this with a mental picture.

Thenooblord January 22nd, 2010 14:44

any1 got spare nozzle assermbly?

El Cactus Loco January 23rd, 2010 13:44

hey for all you guys out there having trouble with the green gas mags. i originally had only 1/5 mags not leaking. now i have 3/5 with this new trick (the other 2 need parts)
the trick is to put the big square o-ring into the backplate. make sure it is fully seated around the perimeter. then mate it to the mag body and screw down the 4 screws to juuuuust finger tight. then shoot a blast of propane/green gas with lots of silicone in there. my theory is that this blast forces the o-ring to seal between the backplate and body. then screw in all 4 screws about half way and give it another blast of gas. it will leak at both these stages, that is normal. then tighten down the screws HARD. be very careful not to strip the screws or worse the threads in the mag. the mag should now be mostly sealed. if there are any small (hissing) leaks, they should stop after a few fills. fill it up then just leave it to seal. mine did over night. i picked them up this morning, and all 3 fired!
good luck

Greydingoe January 23rd, 2010 21:09

So, my scar works on full auto but not on semi. I pull back on the cocking lever to load the first BB, pull the trigger, then the trigger stops after the first shot. To get it to shoot again I either have to pull the cocking lever again OR switch it into safety and back to semi. Was wondering what this could be.

808 January 26th, 2010 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Cactus Loco (Post 1148631)
hey for all you guys out there having trouble with the green gas mags. i originally had only 1/5 mags not leaking. now i have 3/5 with this new trick (the other 2 need parts)
the trick is to put the big square o-ring into the backplate. make sure it is fully seated around the perimeter. then mate it to the mag body and screw down the 4 screws to juuuuust finger tight. then shoot a blast of propane/green gas with lots of silicone in there. my theory is that this blast forces the o-ring to seal between the backplate and body. then screw in all 4 screws about half way and give it another blast of gas. it will leak at both these stages, that is normal. then tighten down the screws HARD. be very careful not to strip the screws or worse the threads in the mag. the mag should now be mostly sealed. if there are any small (hissing) leaks, they should stop after a few fills. fill it up then just leave it to seal. mine did over night. i picked them up this morning, and all 3 fired!
good luck

Tried this method, and I got a leaky GG mag to actually hold some propane. Unfortunately, it wasn't nearly enough to matter - the gas was gone after 10 rounds.

BUT things are looking up. I was thinking about adding a layer of nitro tape to the rectangular o-ring in the rear of the mag. Anyone have any success with that?

El Cactus Loco January 27th, 2010 05:16

have faith. some times it took a few tries!

Thenooblord January 27th, 2010 07:17

I've never had any real issues, once I left it ungassed for like 2 months and it leaked, so i just took it apart put some oil on the rectangular oring and it was dandy, what are all these issues u guys are having?

m102404 January 27th, 2010 09:26

I have definitely found that if you let your mags sit for a bit unused...they'll leak when you next fill them. Especially if you leave them sitting empty.

The mags like oily gas. I'll try to give them a extra bit of oil if I'm going to store them away for a bit...but don't always.

I find that "over-oiling" them after they've been sitting sometimes revives them...but I've got 2 that just wouldn't seal again no matter what I did.

I used some silicone sealer and ran a bead before assembling. I took out the fill and knocker valve to assist with drying. I left them to sit for probably a week (just coincidental...busy, busy) before I gassed them up. They hold gas 100% now. But I've used too much sealing material and have to run some cycles of gas through them to blow out extra junk. It works, messy though.

Personally, I'd say...use oil in the gas, store them almost fully gassed, use them frequently.

BIG January 27th, 2010 14:23

Hey guys.

after 11 mags or so with CO2, I found some cracks (or mor like small white line) on the lower receiver. When I did my bolt stop modification (see previous posts) I also put in 2 screw to hold the PVC block in place. one on each side. I found out that this screw was acting like a hindge and applying the recoil force downward forcing the corner of the block to "open" the lower receiver. Hence, the small white lines. (I'll post pictures tonight so you guys can understand better). I then decided to fill the bottom of the block with hot glue. Hot glue is like a shock absorber. I shot maybe like 15 more mags and now it seems to be ok. When I have more free time I will add 2 more screws.

Now for mags problems. I have 5 CO2 mags. 3 are working good. 1 is completely new and useless. As soon as I screw the cardridge in it it all empty by the striker valve. The other one is slowly leaking. I tryied to use silicon oil on the orings but it did not helped me. Now I'm hunting for another type of oring. Maybe a softer type to help seat better...

If you guys have any idea or experience please let me know. I'll keep you updated on how my search turn out...

Later

BIG January 27th, 2010 20:33

2 Attachment(s)
here's the pics.

I have included a picture to show the angle of the brass cylinder.

Are yours at the same slight angle?

808 January 29th, 2010 09:45

From what I can see, my cylinder is completely parallel to the upper receiver.

As for your mag problem - I primarily use GG mags - can't help you there. The only CO2 mags I have are for testing my aftermarket steel parts, and they don't leak - not yet, anyways.

BIG January 29th, 2010 13:02

Thanks 808.

I tried to find a way to adjust the barrel to make it level but it looks like the problem is the part that hold the barrel is not machined correctly. that is why I was thinking it might be angled on purpose.

Do the GG mag and the CO2 mags have the same top valve? (striker valve)

jamuke January 31st, 2010 20:06

Is it my valve striker
 
all of a sudden my scar wont fire?

everything looks good though I'm starting to show pronounced wear on the hammer.

I removed the lower receiver and inserted an empty mag to see if the striker hit the valve and it seemed to.

I gassed the mag some inserted and pulled the trigger and got a little pffft ..I would have expected more.
I put a bb on the flow rubber and fired, and the bb fired up about 5 ft , it doesn't seem to be releasing the right amount of gas

The valve striker shows some wear on the lower portion but how much wear would it take to make the striker useless?

sorry, can't get any pics up

808 January 31st, 2010 20:14

You may need to take some pics, or disassemble the trigger group to see what the deal is.

As for wear on the striker, I've heard of people using severely worn strikers for a long time, and some people's wouldn't fire anymore with only slight wear.

The striker may be the culprit - but it sounds like there's more going on than just that.

Shirley January 31st, 2010 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamuke (Post 1154615)
all of a sudden my scar wont fire?

everything looks good though I'm starting to show pronounced wear on the hammer.

I removed the lower receiver and inserted an empty mag to see if the striker hit the valve and it seemed to.

I gassed the mag some inserted and pulled the trigger and got a little pffft ..I would have expected more.
I put a bb on the flow rubber and fired, and the bb fired up about 5 ft , it doesn't seem to be releasing the right amount of gas

The valve striker shows some wear on the lower portion but how much wear would it take to make the striker useless?

sorry, can't get any pics up


You can't test the gun like that..

Doing that method is like releasing gas out of GBB magazines, and it will cause the rubbers and o-rings to freeze and damage..

Have you let the magazine to cool down?

The valve striker always and soon be worned out.
If it's worned out like a chunk of half missing, you would need to replace it.

jamuke January 31st, 2010 23:58

thanks Lanny,

fortunately.. or not in this case the striker doesn't come out far enough
to expel the gas

if I gently pull out the striker ,the assembly it will come flush but when I release it, it pulls back about 1mm from flush

I removed the assembly and saw no broken bits

Shirley February 1st, 2010 01:02

Try pulling back the hammer.
Slowly pull it back manually, you should hear 1 click, then the second click.
Then pull the trigger to release the hammer.

If not, then this part may be broken.
Or that you lost the spring for this part.

http://www.cobraairsoft.com/images/mid/WEP-NO66-WE.JPG

m102404 February 1st, 2010 11:46

Jamuke, if you want to bring it by I'll take a look at it.

I'm also working on the side mount for the hicapa tonight and should have that done soon.

Tys

Thenooblord February 2nd, 2010 20:34

I tore into my WETTI trying to figure out why it keeps crushing nozzles, and the only thing i can see is when i look down the cylinder, I see some flashing around the hole that gas enters through, any of you have that? the orings on my nozzle were always getting chewed up, so it may be getting caught on that and jamming up

Karma_ February 3rd, 2010 00:01

I'm having bb's jam in my M4. Ever since I put in the tightbore and new hop up and can't see what would be causing this. If I aim the barrel at the ground they just roll out, otherwise 4-5 will just shoot out. Strange....


Edit: after some inspecting I found the larger o-ring on the nozzle to be dry. I lubed it up and will update tomorrow.

BIG February 4th, 2010 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenooblord (Post 1156132)
I tore into my WETTI trying to figure out why it keeps crushing nozzles, and the only thing i can see is when i look down the cylinder, I see some flashing around the hole that gas enters through, any of you have that? the orings on my nozzle were always getting chewed up, so it may be getting caught on that and jamming up

Did you changed the white spacer on the nozzle rod lately?

How long is it?

jamuke February 6th, 2010 22:19

a near miss
 
almost vacumed up the problem with my scar

the pin that the hammer hits to engage the striker assembly had fallen out

simple as that

should it be glued in, threalocked?

wind953 February 9th, 2010 22:14

So I've just become a member of the WE Scar owners club...hehe, but I've ran into a problem.

There seems to be something odd with the charging handle. I was trying to rack it back for the first time. I was able to pull it back about an inch but it felt like something was acting against me pulling it back. I actually had to use a bit of force to overcome that and pull it back fully. I'm pretty sure that is not supposed to happen, as I've seen review videos with the charging handle being cocked back in one smooth fluid motion.
Note I am aware that for the WE Scar you cannot have the safety on when you pull the handle back, or it will act the same way as what I just described (and it will seriously f*ck sh!t up lol). I made sure that the safety was not on, but the handle acted as if the safety had been on the whole time....
I tried firing with safety on and off and both behaved like they're supposed to.
I did a quick field disassembly, and while pulling out the spring guide assembly I also had to use a bit of force (again...in videos the thing just slide right out). Could it be something wrong with the spring? I don't think so because the gun fires just fine (even on full auto).

Perhaps it's actually nothing to worry about, as long as I really make sure I don't have the safety on while cocking the handle. But I just want to be sure...


Thanks!

Thenooblord February 9th, 2010 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG (Post 1157380)
Did you changed the white spacer on the nozzle rod lately?

How long is it?

no spacer, it got lost somewhere along the line

Shirley February 9th, 2010 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind953 (Post 1161147)
So I've just become a member of the WE Scar owners club...hehe, but I've ran into a problem.

There seems to be something odd with the charging handle. I was trying to rack it back for the first time. I was able to pull it back about an inch but it felt like something was acting against me pulling it back. I actually had to use a bit of force to overcome that and pull it back fully. I'm pretty sure that is not supposed to happen, as I've seen review videos with the charging handle being cocked back in one smooth fluid motion.
Note I am aware that for the WE Scar you cannot have the safety on when you pull the handle back, or it will act the same way as what I just described (and it will seriously f*ck sh!t up lol). I made sure that the safety was not on, but the handle acted as if the safety had been on the whole time....
I tried firing with safety on and off and both behaved like they're supposed to.
I did a quick field disassembly, and while pulling out the spring guide assembly I also had to use a bit of force (again...in videos the thing just slide right out). Could it be something wrong with the spring? I don't think so because the gun fires just fine (even on full auto).

Perhaps it's actually nothing to worry about, as long as I really make sure I don't have the safety on while cocking the handle. But I just want to be sure...


Thanks!

There is a wheel on your hammer. Spin it. See if it spins freely. Mine had the exact same thing and was scratching the bolt carrier. I then dremel sanded down the wheel thinner and it spins freely fine.

wind953 February 9th, 2010 22:59

Oh okay thanks I will try that.

wind953 February 10th, 2010 01:19

If you are talking about the tiny little silver wheel thing, it seems to spin fine. I doubt it is because of that. Because during the last part of the field strip (taking out the bolt carrier), you have to rack the handle all the way back, and even then I'm getting that stuck segment. I think it might have something to do with the the part where the nozzle of the bolt carrier goes into the barrel set (the gold part).

Also, my rear sight does not stand up straight when I flip it up. It's a little bit slanted. I can push it in a little bit more to straighten it up if I push my finger against it, but when I let go to it slants back again. Is that supposed to be adjustable?


Thanks.

Shirley February 10th, 2010 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind953 (Post 1161289)
If you are talking about the tiny little silver wheel thing, it seems to spin fine. I doubt it is because of that. Because during the last part of the field strip (taking out the bolt carrier), you have to rack the handle all the way back, and even then I'm getting that stuck segment. I think it might have something to do with the the part where the nozzle of the bolt carrier goes into the barrel set (the gold part).

Also, my rear sight does not stand up straight when I flip it up. It's a little bit slanted. I can push it in a little bit more to straighten it up if I push my finger against it, but when I let go to it slants back again. Is that supposed to be adjustable?


Thanks.

Like all problems, my nozzle ia surviving, but the o-ring is out of life soon.. The problem is the rod is loose. Even if you get a thicker C-clip, it will still wobble. The RA-Tech solves the problem.

As for the rear sight, yes that's normal. Mine's like that. lol

wind953 February 10th, 2010 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman (Post 1161291)
The problem is the rod is loose. Even if you get a thicker C-clip, it will still wobble. The RA-Tech solves the problem.

Are you positive that that's the problem? Nothing's "loose". If anything, something might be too tight lol....thus the "stuck" problem. I don't really want to get the NPAS thingy unless I have to. It's just for adjusting fps isn't it?

THanks.

Shirley February 10th, 2010 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind953 (Post 1161300)
Are you positive that that's the problem? Nothing's "loose". If anything, something might be too tight lol....thus the "stuck" problem. I don't really want to get the NPAS thingy unless I have to. It's just for adjusting fps isn't it?

THanks.

That is the problem on all WE's. NPAS is not just adjusting FPS, but it's great for an upgrade for durability, especially when you get the one with the stainless.

I'd go with the NPAS, who know's, maybe you want to game it outdoors, and rainy days indoors.. lol

El Cactus Loco February 11th, 2010 00:20

hey i have a v1 m4 and there is a bit of slop or wiggle room between the upper and lower receivers. has anyone figured a way to eliminate this wiggle? shims etc? it seems to be coming from the front take down pin, the part of the upper that attaches here isnt a tight fit into the front of the lower. its not major, i just dont like having lose parts esp when they can affect the alignment of the operating mech....

m102404 February 11th, 2010 09:07

I would NOT use a "magic" pin, expanding type receiver pin...although that's what they're great at doing, I don't think that the airsoft rifle materials are up to the stress while in use (i.e. it'll be nice and tight...then probably pop the front lug of the upper receiver after shooting).

Mine has no play when assembled, but a bit of play when field stripped. If there was a bit of play I'd probably go with a shim ring and try to keep them even between both sides of the front lug.

Shirley February 18th, 2010 17:01

Anyone know a good method how to stop leaky mags? I've just used the blue gasket method.. The gasket seals for the WE mag is so thin ans flimsy..

El Cactus Loco February 19th, 2010 23:24

word on the street is lithium grease is the way to go for tricky mags. doesnt lose performance in cold temps like the ones created by cool-down.

Hata February 25th, 2010 11:09

I also heard of lithium grease to fix mag leaks. But where can I find this kind of lithium grease? I believe those from crappy tire or HD not safe for rubber on airsoft, right?

m102404 February 25th, 2010 11:25

I just got two mags that were sealed with silicone gasket sealer. HOLY CRAP that stuff stinks!!! Close to I'm going to barf stink.

This stuff does peel off nicely though...so I cleaned it out and tried white silicone grease. Can Tire, automotive section, usually close to the loctite/gasket sealer/grease/etc...you can get a big tub of it, but a tube goes a long, long way.

I greased up the "o-ring" seal and put it back together. I then used overly oiled gas to fill the mag. Worked perfectly the first time. There was some "grease blowout" with the first couple of mags of gas...so I just vented the first mag, I'll have to remember to swab out my barrel later.

Shirley February 25th, 2010 13:39

I used the blue gasket maker. Put it over the gasket, then tighten half way, wait an hour and then tighten full and wait a bit over 24h and no leaks!

m102404 February 25th, 2010 15:56

How do you stand that smell?!?!

A note on sealing stuff up.....

On the mags that I looked at there was significant rust on the screws that hold the back plate onto the gas resevoir. I suspect the mag was washed clean to remove any oil/grease before it was sealed with the gasket stuff.

Doing so though resulted in LOTS of corrosion to the screw heads and thread bodies of the screws. Enough so that the holding power of the threads were compromised.

You might want to pull one screw at a time and check them...

One of the holes in the main part was stripped out...you can use a slightly larger self tapping screw to replace the stock one. It seems to be holding well.

But, I'd advise against washing off the screws....unless you take steps to protect them from corrosion again, or replace them with new ones (they're standard screws).

Tys

El Cactus Loco February 26th, 2010 17:34

yah use brake cleaner to clean those parts....

rustysniper March 1st, 2010 18:53

OK.....I have a problem that I can't seem to piece together with my M4.
I did 2 things...
1) Installed RA Tech NPAS
2) Attempted to do a semi only conversion on the selector

Now....when I press the trigger all it does is blow off all of the gas. I tried a bunch of different mags with the same effect.

Help.....

m102404 March 1st, 2010 20:11

With the upper off...

If you cock the hammer, does it:
- trip the knocker back
- stay cocked

When you trip the hammer, does it:
- knock the knocker out

Then when you cock it back, does it do what it did in the first step? If yes...your lower is fine (at least so far).

With the upper on, it's knocking the mag and the gas is venting into the nozzle.

- is the bolt going back at all? If not, your float valve might not be closing...does it move freely
- no issue with manually racking the bolt? guessing not
- try adjusting it so that the float valve is as far back as possible
- check all your o-rings
- take a good close up pic of your nozzle, valve, spacer, rod and post it

Thenooblord March 1st, 2010 20:22

or maybe just at the same time you did the work, the firing pin delay stop broke

rustysniper March 1st, 2010 20:34

With the upper off...

If you cock the hammer, does it:
- trip the knocker back YES
- stay cocked YES

When you trip the hammer, does it:
- knock the knocker out YES

Then when you cock it back, does it do what it did in the first step? If yes...your lower is fine (at least so far).

With the upper on, it's knocking the mag and the gas is venting into the nozzle.

- is the bolt going back at all? If not, your float valve might not be closing...does it move freely NO
- no issue with manually racking the bolt? guessing not NO
- try adjusting it so that the float valve is as far back as possible (in reference to the front of the nozzle?)
- check all your o-rings (looks good)
- take a good close up pic of your nozzle, valve, spacer, rod and post it will do

Question....could I have screwed up the positioning of the selector in the receiver that would affect it?
__________________

m102404 March 1st, 2010 20:58

If your float valve, the little valve inside the nozzle, does not move forward (towards the muzzle) it will not close the gas system and start the recoil phase...no bolt moving backwards, no trip of the knocker, knocker stays forward and keeps pumping out gas until the mag is empty.

So pull your bolt.
- take a close look at the nozzle
- use a little screwdriver/pick/rod/fingernail and see if you can push the float valve forward...it should move freely, but there is a little spring tension..
- it should pop back when you let it go.
- if it's not doing that, take a close look at the o-ring on it, pull the nozzle apart and test fit it without the spring (don't shoot it like that, just test fit by hand).

The float valve MUST move freely and seal tightly when it's forward. I mic'd the specs of the valve...but it's in the workshop somewhere.

Tys

m102404 March 1st, 2010 21:00

OH! also...does your old nozzle and new nozzle look exactly the same. I.e. outside shape, size, etc...

Or does one have a big ridge on the outside and the other is more of a slim bottle shape?

The original nozzles were slim bottle shapes...the new ones have a big ridge around the outside (looks like the SCAR nozzle).

If you are going to ask for pics of the two....go back to the beginning of this thread and search for pics.

m102404 March 1st, 2010 22:59

pic of the semi/full paddle and spring

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...4/DSC_7471.jpg

rustysniper March 1st, 2010 23:34

OK...got it so it looks like the pic above.
Now.....if I put a mag in and try to charge the gun.....it won't....the charging handle stays back. If I take the mag out and charge it there is no problem and the bolt returns. When I put the mag back and pull the trigger it still dispells all of the gas.....

This is a bummer

Thenooblord March 1st, 2010 23:59

when you cock the hammer does that striker retract flush with the magwell walls or does it only move back about half way?

rustysniper March 2nd, 2010 00:00

retracts flush......

Thenooblord March 2nd, 2010 00:02

and when you fire it, the bolt cycles? sorry if you already said that, I hvent read all the way through

rustysniper March 2nd, 2010 00:05

no....bolt is not cycling......

Shirley March 2nd, 2010 00:11

So my solution to long lasting hingeplate for SCAR is a stiffer recoil spring and a bomber light weight bolt. :p

KEVORKIAN March 2nd, 2010 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman (Post 1176692)
So my solution to long lasting hingeplate for SCAR is a stiffer recoil spring and a bomber light weight bolt. :p

With that set-up you will encounter the bolt not locking back after the last round is fired...it may save the hinge plate though!

Papabois March 2nd, 2010 02:47

Thicker?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi fellas.

Up late pondering on how to improve this system's valve / nozzle assembly.

I look at the stock nozzle, and all the aftermarket nozzles (Part-44) and wonder, why isn't the wall-thickness thicker, at where they make the nozzle ports. Rather than purchase an aftermarket adjustable unit, make my own adjustable floating valve by tapping a 3mm hole for a set-screw, and pay a machinist to make a thicker nozzle (see rendering: red instead of green diameter). Would that be the better way to go?

On a simpler fix note, I"m also thinking about just trying a piece of silicone R/C full-tubing, to replace the hard plastick spacer (Part-40). This way, if there is a BB jam-up, or slight miss-alignment, the silicone spacer will absorb the impact, and take that load away from the port section on the nozzle.

What's your thoughts?

m102404 March 2nd, 2010 07:04

Don't know why a thicker bodied nozzle wouldn't work.

I use a #4-40 tap and a common screw to make my own adjustable valves. Just grind the head flat when it's ready.

I used "washers" made from AEG cylinder head black rubber bumper material...two thicknesses were just right. I used a little pipe I had laying around and sharpened the rim of one end...then used it as a cutter to punch out disks. Mines not pretty, but it's got 100's of rounds through it.

The material has to be stiff enough to press the nozzle tight in the chamber.

Best of luck,

Tys

Papabois March 2nd, 2010 11:10

I'm also looking @ the guide rod assembly. It's pretty sloppy in my opinion.

It's constructed very much like an R/C car's shock. That industry has aftermarket shockshafts, made from bad-ass materials, Hard chromoly, titanium, spring steel, nitride coated, etc.

Finding one at an appropriate length to Part-39, and using a teflon shock piston (turned down to fit perfect into Part-38), should make a very non-wiggling assembly (cause the back of Part-39 is now supporting with the front support). The highly polished surface of the shock shaft, should make operation much more slick as well.

m102404 March 2nd, 2010 11:24

I don't think it matters how much play it has when it's expanding...as long as it's not leaking too much between the rod and the piston head.

When it's collapsed...it's pretty ridgid, and supported by the cylinder. When it's expanding to push the bolt back, it doesn't matter how stiff it is. Some slop is probably a good thing actually.

Neat idea though...go for it!

Tys

Papabois March 2nd, 2010 12:19

I think you're right about the little bit of movement. Help it self-align.

wind953 March 3rd, 2010 04:24

So my mag for my WE Scar started leaking...like really bad leak...hissing loudly as soon as I filled it with gas. I've read somewhere about the blue gasket method. There were pictures in that tutorial, but it was for a GBB pistol mag. Would a mag for the WE Scar have similar disassembly? Are there any other methods for fixing leaks here? I'd kinda like to avoid having to buy the blue gasket thing if I don't have to. Thanks in advance!

wind953 March 3rd, 2010 04:55

Also, one other question. Aren't WE M4s and SCARs pre-upgraded out of the box to take both propane and CO2 mags? What's this CO2 conversion kits for WE M4/SCAR I see on some sites?
Also just to confirm, WE M4 magazines are compatible with WE SCAR right? Airsoftbuddy has the M4 magazines on sale for 31.50 USD right now...I think I'll get one for my Scar.

m102404 March 3rd, 2010 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind953 (Post 1177636)
Also, one other question. Aren't WE M4s and SCARs pre-upgraded out of the box to take both propane and CO2 mags? What's this CO2 conversion kits for WE M4/SCAR I see on some sites?
Also just to confirm, WE M4 magazines are compatible with WE SCAR right? Airsoftbuddy has the M4 magazines on sale for 31.50 USD right now...I think I'll get one for my Scar.

So far as I can tell...the current gen are propane ready (aside from the SCAR buttplate that'll break...the internals are ready).

The upgrade kit you saw was out to convert the slim bottle type of M4 nozzle to the Scar type that has the ring around it. You needed a new chamber that fit that nozzle profile when you switched between nozzles.

The WE M4, SCAR, PDW and 416 all take the same mags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind953 (Post 1177634)
So my mag for my WE Scar started leaking...like really bad leak...hissing loudly as soon as I filled it with gas. I've read somewhere about the blue gasket method. There were pictures in that tutorial, but it was for a GBB pistol mag. Would a mag for the WE Scar have similar disassembly? Are there any other methods for fixing leaks here? I'd kinda like to avoid having to buy the blue gasket thing if I don't have to. Thanks in advance!

Just take the shell off the mag...it'll be evident which screws are holding the back plate on. The "o-ring" is under that.

You can try to soak the rubber in a baggie of silicone oil overnight....that fixed one of mine.

I've used silicone grease (the same stuff you use for greasing an AEG cylinder) I coated the rubber and it sealed up nicely.

I've used 100% pure silicone window caulking....that worked.

I've got two mags that someone (looks like hitman's mess :) ) used blue gasket sealer...one worked and the other didn't. I redid that one with silicone grease and it worked.

Oddly....the ones with caulking/gasket sealer seem "weaker" than the others. Not sure why...it's not like it's filled with sealer or anything.

GBBR mags are just like GBB mags....they're just bigger.

wind953 March 3rd, 2010 16:38

I am trying to take out the inner magazine out of the shell now. Boy is it hard to pull out...:rolleyes:
When I test it later...it's not necessary to put it back into the outer shell is it? I don't wanna cram it back into the shell again to find it still leaks and have to try and get that thing out of the shell again. This thing is crammed in there pretty tight...

m102404 March 3rd, 2010 17:30

remove base plate...flick/slide it out with a screwdriver

unscrew little + screw that holds the shell to the mag

push mag out from the bottom.

Only with the mags I've dropped on ground where the bottom had gotten banged up did I find it hard to get the base plate off.

wind953 March 3rd, 2010 18:00

I got it out in the end. Had to use a hammer and screwdriver butt to "gently" tap it out haha... Once it was half way out it was easy to pull it all out. Soaking o-ring in silicone oil now....will get back to it later tonite.

m102404 March 4th, 2010 12:37

To install a new valve knocker you need to remove the old one obviously.

- remove the two + screws that hold the knocker cover plate. This is the plate that is right infront of the hammer.
- cock the hammer back so you can get a good look, and so that the knocker is retracted
- lift the plate straight up out of the trigger mech
- the knocker might pop out...or you might have to wiggle it around
- there's a little spring that sits under the knocker....it has a little plastic guide rod on it...don't lose them. While it's out, take a look at how it sits in under the knocker...pretty simple.
---swap your parts...make sure that it's working/moving smoothly.
---it's kind of fiddly to get the little spring back under the knocker...I find that if I slide the knocker on and use a small screwdriver/rod to push the spring in under it...it usually goes in ok.

To remove the knocker delay/Part #66...you need to remove the trigger assembly.

(this is roughly from memory on the M4...so it might be off here or there...but it should give you the jist of it).
- turn the rifle over so the pistol grip is facing up...remove the grip...don't loose the spring or the pin....note where the pin goes into the receiver...it notches into the selector lever
- turn the rifle back over....wiggle/rotate/pull the selector from the gun
- push out 1 cross pin that holds the mech to the receiver (some of the pins are fake...so don't wail away on those...LOL).
- take out the 2 + screws that hold the mech in the receiver
- lift the mech out. Note the orientation and position of part #66 and the little spring under it.
---reverse procedure to replace.

* it might be easier to replace the knocker while the mech is out of the receiver and part #66 is out. Depends on what you need to do.

* when you're putting it together, make sure the Full Auto "paddle" is in the correct orientation...see pic a couple of posts ago.

Gato March 14th, 2010 14:21

I've just ordered a AWSS M4A1 and I just felt that I should thank all of you for compiling all this information in one spot, I hope to be able to provide information for others at some point!

Papabois March 15th, 2010 22:01

Finally
 
I just got mine going, after waiting for internal goodies to show up.

I used some Tetra-gas, BB-Bastard .28s, NPAS full open, and holy f--k!. Like was said elsewhere, "This thing IS a nail-driver. My buddy said, "See if it will break this bottle of beer"? First attempt...BLAM. Beer everywhere. :)

My question: About how many seconds should I fill the mags with Tetra gas? Same question for Propane, unless it's the same. I did 8-seconds, using what I do to me pistol as a referance, but it seemed like not enough. I plan on using Propane, but used Tetra because I have some lying around.

Thenooblord March 15th, 2010 22:07

keep going till you dont hear anymore gas going in, you cant overfill it

m102404 March 15th, 2010 22:23

for my 1 sec count....a TM Hicapa mag is about 10sec...a WE mag is about 14-15sec. It'll spurt when it's full.

Thenooblord March 15th, 2010 22:46

WE mags have the silent fill valves, only TM mags spurt when they fill

Stealth_Omega March 23rd, 2010 17:17

Do lots of you guys have trouble with the mags? I just got 4 C02 mags m4/scar and 3 of them leaked out of the box from the valve at the top. I also found that they cool down way too fast couldn't even get through a mag on semi at an ambient temp of +21. I'm very disappointed with them.

-Trooper- March 23rd, 2010 17:22

I stick to gas mags cuz I'm afraid of destroying my gun, lol.
I have had some leak problems, so all I did was take the valve out, oil it and put it back in. It has solve the problem so far, but I'm not sure if CO2 mags work differently.

m102404 March 23rd, 2010 17:46

Can't comment on the CO2 mags sorry...just haven't seen the need for them.

Re. the fill valves...I've swapped all mine to Madbull SS fill valves (for grenades) 'cause the stock ones were crap.

Tys

Stealth_Omega March 23rd, 2010 18:02

The mags have similar release valves but with slight differences, don't know how to get them out though. The CO2 mag then has 2 openings just below the release valve that you can open up, each with an O ring to seal them and those reveal 2 chambers making the gas go in what looks like an S shape pattern before it gets to the final release valve. I definitely like my gas mag more wish I had gotten more gas mags instead.

b16bvtec March 24th, 2010 00:00

Hi guyz i just got my we m4 with clear lower receiver do you guyz know which version is it and where can i get parts for my gun online or in markham area thx and i want the change the front rail like the s system one which brand will fit my gun too?

Gato March 24th, 2010 12:40

I've done a google on this but it keeps coming up with info on the gun and retail pages for the gun, none of which answer the question.

Is it possible to get the longer barrel for the WETTI SCAR? I know for the AEG all my brother had to do was flip the "switch" pull out his barrel and he'd be able to drop in the longer one, but what's the availability of barrels for the WETTI SCAR and where if at all can I get a longer one?

m102404 March 24th, 2010 13:05

Try airsoft buddy. I'm 90+% sure the M4 and the SCAR take the same types of barrels (i.e. the cuts/notches and attachment to the chamber are the same)....I'm not 100% only because I haven't actually done it myself.

262mm
http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ep...roducts_id=479

363mm
http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ep...roducts_id=478

505mm
http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ep...roducts_id=480

Haven't picked it up yet, but my hopup rubbers and 363 barrel came in last week.


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